Forty-nine years are long enough for land lease – Katikkiro Mayiga

What do you consider to be your achievements in the last four years?
It isn’t just mine, it is for the team I work with; the ability to make people of Buganda realise that they can achieve a lot of things by themselves. The belief within themselves, the confidence, the desire to make progress and the desire to achieve big things, I see it whenever I travel all over the kingdom.

Then the challenges…
Leaders must not recite challenges all the time. Leadership is about finding solutions to challenges, so I normally concentrate on finding solutions. But making all of us aim at one goal is one challenge.

At the beginning of your tenure you led the Kabaka to State House Entebbe, and we saw some results. What more remains on Buganda’s ebyaffe?
First of all, I never took Kabaka to State House. In the last four years, Kabaka has only been to State House once – last month. It was myself and colleagues who visited the President a number of times negotiating over our ebyaffe.
But, of course, the people of Buganda want the federal system of governance which hasn’t been attained and everyone recalls the response given to the Odoki Commission and the Ssempebwa Commission, but we haven’t gotten there yet. And even if we had disagreements with government in 2013, a number of government agencies haven’t re-aligned their positions.
For example, those who work in our buildings in Ssaza and Gomboloola, many of them have to formalise their occupancy in those places. A number of items remain, but we keep on pushing the government, we engage with them and I am confident at some stage everything will be reinstituted to the kingdom of Buganda.

There was a reported plan to include an airfield within the palace. People want to know who the real developers are or will be
I have received probably 20 proposals from different people, and the airfield was just one of them. The development of Lubiri must take into consideration the cultural importance of those grounds. There are certain projects you cannot carry out within Lubiri. And certainly an airfield will be a big challenge. And so many other proposals are good but not tenable given the cultural importance.
We set up a committee to consult key stakeholders and they have covered sufficient ground as far as consulting is concerned. Once they furnish us with the report we shall present it before the Kabaka then the cabinet debate it and Lukiiko will consequently discuss.
But at the moment of course the schools are already there, we have space for events, we need open air parks and of course a new Twekobe for Kabaka that meets the demand of the current times.

There are dissenting voices from Kooki, Bunyala and Buruuli. Any worries?
There isn’t much to worry about Kooki because it became officially part of Buganda in 1896 under an agreement.
But even before 1896, during the reign of Kabaka Jjunju, Ssemakokiro Kooki was already under the spell of the Kingdom of Buganda because the descendants of the prince of Bunyoro who came and settled in Kooki received protection from the Kabaka of Buganda. They became part of Buganda.
And the Babiito who are the descendants of the king from Bunyoro, the clan of the Kamuswaga essentially, they are always here with us. So there isn’t much to worry about.
Those voices you hear are politically motivated in Buruuli and Bugerere and when you there, those so-called leaders there are not known by the vast majority of the people in those communities.

What happened to the vow to complete Masiro in just one year?
First of all, Kasubi Tombs were burnt down in 2010 and when I was appointed Katikkiro in 2013, not much had been done by way of restoring tombs and in this period we have been able to complete the perimeter wall. It covers 63 acres and in that time we have been able to rehabilitate and build new houses for the key traditional attendants.
As far as the mausoleum is concerned, the structure is up and right now we are working on roofing it. The reason why the tombs are not completed in the time I thought is that they are not an ordinary structure, cultural norms must be observed at every stage of construction. So you work at a pace which culture allows you to move.

Some people think there is a government hand in the Ekyapa Mu Ngalo campaign. You had just been to President Museveni with the Kabaka and soon after announced the drive
Government has no hand in it. We conceived it at a time we registered Bibanja holders. It was thought that we need to secure these people conclusively because a certificate of title is conclusive evidence of ownership of land.
We thought that he who owns a title is miles apart from one holding a mere piece of paper for kibanja. And the Buganda Land Board has taken time examining this idea and when we announced it last month, it was after that process. Nothing to do with State House.

What is that exact clause in the lease agreement to confirm automatic renewal? Because leases everywhere can be renewed at the discretion of the landlord
Forty-nine years is long enough, if you are 84, your children will work on the renewal process. At 84 years, even if it is a freehold and your children are not well groomed, they can sell it.
If at the time of expiry you will not want to renew, then you revert to Kibanja. And there are already laws in the books that govern Kibanja holders. Thirdly, government issues leases, district land boards issue leases, the Catholic and Protestant churches [too]. Why should it be different when it comes to the kingdom of Buganda?
We issue leases because this is land belonging to the Kingdom of Buganda. The kingdom is not ending with our generation, so you go back have the title renewed [and] use it for your development. The kingdom is going to be here for as long as we can foretell.

Kabaka’s land is before court, taken there by people connected to former kabaka Daudi Chwa’s family. Is this not a blockade to Ekyapa mu Ngalo?
Those issues do disturb us, but you see the official estates of the Kabaka of Buganda cannot belong to a demised king. A demised king like Daudi Chwa had personal estates which he distributed under his will. Now the official estate of the Kabaka, for example the 250 miles, belongs to the kingdom and superintended by the reigning king.
And by the way, Kabaka Mutebi is a direct descendant of king Chwa because he is the son of kabaka Muteesa II, a son king Chwa. The descendants who bring up the claim of the Chwa estate should be advised not to confuse it with the official estate of the Kingdom of Buganda.

There is talk of political suffocation. Some people think you have not allowed politicians to use the platform of Mengo to popularise their agendas
Bulange is for all – DP, FDC, NRM. There is only one condition, allegiance to the Kabaka. I have never kept out anyone. They can use this as long as the pre-condition is observed. You respect the Kabaka, I welcome you.

It is claimed that certain officials use Kabaka’s name for selfish gains. For example, there was an agreement between artiste Bobi Wine and Kabaka Mutebi who was represented by two gentlemen on sale of four acres of land at Mulago. It was later cancelled that Kabaka had changed mind
Nobody is misadvising or misusing Kabaka’s name. The issue of Bobi Wine is simple, the transaction was not completed. Land transactions end with the issuance of a land title. There was no title issued.
Bobi is better advised to sit with the right people. There is a difference between wishing and having. But what I know his money (Shs150 million) was returned to him.