Govt, Opposition need to focus on shared national interests - German ambassador

You’ve been in Uganda for more than two years now. How do you find the country?
It is a beautiful country. It is a country of great diversity and has manifold landscapes; all African landscapes except for the sea and desert. It has a magnificent variety of fauna and flora. You have the jungle and the savannah. Great lakes, the River Nile and huge mountains like the Rwenzoris. And the biggest asset is the Ugandan people; they represent all the four language families in Africa.

Germany established diplomatic relations with Uganda immediately after the country gained independence in 1962. How would you describe their relations?
We have very friendly and cordial relations. We have a long standing cooperation lasting more than 50 years. We stand next to Ugandans when it comes to the development of the country, and we have a very similar approach to regional issues.

What are some of the areas of cooperation between Uganda and Germany?
Actually, next week we have negotiations on cooperation to redefine them. Up to now, we have chosen three priorities; water, electricity and access to financial services for the rural population. What we want to do now is extend this last priority to the broader topic of rural development.
We have other activities such as a support programme for the Auditor General, we have a border demarcation programme, and we have conflict mediation programmes, and among others. And we have 150 private initiatives in Uganda. People coming from Germany such as tourists visit hospitals or schools and become friends with Ugandans, and Ugandans ask them to support them, and when they are back in Germany they establish a little association or an NGO just for the purpose of cooperating with their new friends in Uganda.

How many Germans are in Uganda and what are their sector areas?
We do not know exactly how many Germans there are, because they are not obliged to report to us. We recommend that, but not everybody does it, but it might be about 700. Most of them are active for GIZ, KFW and for NGOs. We also have to consider that they come and go. And then we have a few people working in companies, and we also have marriages between Ugandans and Germans.

Germany rose from the ashes of World War II to become a global economic powerhouse in a few decades. How did you achieve this so quickly?
Shortly after World War II, we were in a terrible situation, we had lost a fourth of our territory and we had to mourn about seven million dead people. Large parts of towns, infrastructure and industries were destroyed. We also had to receive 10 million refugees . Then we were divided into two separate states; a democratic state in the west and a communist state in the east. I talk for the western state, because this is what you are probably referring to. In this western state, there was a currency reform and the famous Deutsche Mark was introduced. Furthermore, there was the Marshall plan for reconstruction.
But first and foremost there was the individual contribution of the citizens, because even if you lose a lot, what you cannot lose is education and skills. Our grandmothers and grandfathers and fathers and mothers sacrificed a lot and worked very hard in order to build up the country again so as to enable their children a better future.
This combination of education and skills combined with the will to reconstruct the country might have been the key to success and made the so-called German economic miracle.

What lessons can Uganda pick from German’s journey?
I think it is difficult because Uganda is in a different situation than Germany was at the time. But it is certainly important to focus on education. This is because you have a population growth of more than a million a year and you are going to double your population by 2040 and then it goes further up.
You need to try to have all your citizens to participate at the build-up of your country and not leave out anyone. That is important, and it means you have to give everyone a chance to stay healthy, get a good education and to enter the labour market.

Tomorrow Monday, October 3 is German National Day. Can you tell us more about this day?
It marks the most important event in recent German history, the reunification. After World War II, Germany was separated and on October 3rd, 1990, it was reunited.
That was a moment of singular joy for the Germans that they could live in one state together again, and it was the end of the communist dictatorship. So the people in East Germany regained their freedom.
But it also has a European and even global significance. It marked the end of the cold war, the fall of the iron curtain which was dividing Europe, and thus ended the bipolar world.

Over the past two decades, Germany has risen to a major European power; providing leadership during the Eurozone crisis and in the management of the refugees crisis. What is German’s new role in the international stage?
Germany regained her sovereignty and became a normal state again with the reunification. And Germany stands ready to assume responsibility now within Europe and also around the world. Having said that, I must say we are very much aware of the need to realign with all partners in Europe and we are also very aware of our limited impact, we are a medium size country – we are not a superpower.
But we can and we want to contribute, and I can give you a few examples which illustrate that and also reflect what we learned from the past.
One of them is the need to refrain from threats and violence in international relations, and to explore all possibilities for de-escalation in a conflict. An example of where we succeeded in this with our partners was in the nuclear issue with Iran.
And we want to go an extra mile for that; in case you face war crimes, or genocide, then Germany stands ready to participate in interventions. The first one was in the Kosovo war.
Then you mentioned refugees, Germany stands unswervingly to the obligations of the international refugee law. And again concerning the victims of human trafficking, across the Mediterranean Sea where so many people lose their lives, we cannot and may not look away. This asks for a comprehensive cooperation between the countries of origin, of transit and of destination. Actually between Africa and Europe. And we have started this cooperation.
Another example is the Brexit. Germany regrets the Brexit profoundly and we believe that the right lessons need to be drawn from it. The German position is the European project can succeed if we find the right balance of the distribution of competences between the European Union and the member states. And that’s what we are working on.
Among the areas you support in Uganda include good governance, corruption control and respect for human rights. How is Uganda performing on those fronts?
I think that Uganda is struggling. If it comes to corruption, you have quite a few institutions like the Auditor General, the Attorney General, the Inspectorate of Government and others that try to establish a clean government and good governance.
So institutions are there, and you also have strategies, but what we are still missing is a breakthrough. A lot of efforts still need to be taken to wipe out this cancer. We stand by Uganda by helping it. We have this programme, for instance, with the auditor general. We do want Ugandans to succeed there.
Last week we had the national partnership forum. And then for procurement, for instance, e-governance is supposed to be introduced. These are important steps which we can only commend. But I think from the top of this country down to the bottom efforts need to be taken. It is very clear that the government has the first duty to act here, but each and every citizen has to do it.

Uganda is recovering from a divisive election period that saw scores of Opposition leaders and supporters arrested or harassed by the police. What do you make of the democratic space in Uganda?
First of all, the elections, according to the observation mission of the European Union, fell short of international obligations for the conduct of democratic elections at key stages. And that has been stated very clearly by this mission and we subscribe to their findings. They have issued a number of recommendations.
Then we had the ruling of the Supreme Court, which while confirming the results of the presidential elections, also issued a number of recommendations and charged the Attorney General to follow up on them. So we are in touch with the Ugandan government and they assured us that they would consider all these recommendations and that they have the political will now to tackle constitutional and political reforms.
I believe another important step in the situation in which we find ourselves now could be if the government and the opposition engage in finding areas of common national interests to advance this constitutional, political, economic reforms. And that could actually contribute considerably to enhancing democratic space in Uganda.

Do you ever engage the government and Opposition in such talks?
We are observers in this country; we talk to both sides. We advise them to communicate and I think that it is the Ugandans who must do this; you must look for facilitators for this in Uganda.

In explaining lessons Uganda can pick from the experience of Germany being divided, you have previously been quoted as saying “it is important for a country to put the people first before the policies”…
Well, I said each government has the duty to put the people first in its policies.

Can you explain what you mean by that?
That was a quote on how I described the reasons for the failure of the government in East Germany. They had a mighty security apparatus who was trying to create a certain fear in their citizens. I believe that this is not the way to run a government. You need to put the needs of the people at the centre of your policies. And then you have to define your political priorities, and different political parties have different opinions on that.
But what should be avoided is that you come into a confrontation between the state and the citizens. That was what happened in East Germany. And a state which is acting against its own citizens cannot survive in the long run. Every responsible politician should always ask the question: how can I serve my people and not how can I stay in power.

Uganda is currently ranked 139 out of 168 on Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index. During the International Anti-Corruption Day last year, you pledged that Germany will stand by Uganda in the fight against corruption. How do you intend to do that?
I mentioned already the project by which we support the Auditor General. I think you have to strengthen the institutions that deal with the fight against corruption, and the Auditor General is one of them. And you also need to convince the government to make it a priority. We are in constant contact with the government.
But this is also a question of conscience; conscience within the political class and also within the population. If your population asks your parliamentarians to give them money, or agree to vote buying, then that is not contributing to fighting this system.

Germany is known for its industries and technology. Do you have any mutually beneficial skills transfer programmes with Uganda?
We have quite a few within GIZ, which is our implementation agency for development cooperation in the technical field, and they work together with private sector companies in a programme called “Employment for sustainable development”.
And then we have the Senior Experts Service where we assign retired skills and management experts to implement self-help programmes in sectors such as technology, agriculture management, electricity, you name it. They have carried out more than 330 missions in Uganda. Ugandans can reach them on [email protected] for assistance.
Then we have the Cologne Chamber for Skilled Craft and Small Business. Here they have carried out programmes together with Nakawa Vocational Training Institute, the Uganda Small Scale Industry Association and the Uganda Manufacturers Association. Also, we have Welthungerhilfe, which is a big German NGO, and others which engage in this field.

For Ugandan entrepreneurs, what business opportunities can they look out for in Germany?
They have to explore the German market; what can they offer, what are the Germans interested in. There is a number of products that are being exported to Germany, which is mainly fish, coffee, cocoa and tobacco among others. I think it is worthwhile for Uganda to try to attract German investment here. Because German investment and trade with Uganda, I hate to say it as German ambassador, is way below its potential.
Your President [Yoweri Museveni] has done important steps to do so, he went to Germany in June at the invitation of the German Business Association for Africa. He delivered speeches there and he also invited a delegation which came in August. And now others have caught interest.
I’d also like to mention that Germany is often looked at as an economic power the strength of which lies with big companies such as BMW, Volkswagen, but the real backbone of the German economy are small and medium size companies. They give jobs to 80 per cent of the population.

You said we are not doing enough to attract German companies. How can we do that?
I think that the participation in fairs, for instance, is necessary for Ugandans who want to place their products in Germany. We have the biggest tourism fair in the world but your participation is still limited. A German company has been charged by Uganda to develop a PR programme for Uganda tourism. I think that is a step forward. But you also have to consider one thing which brings us back to the issue of corruption.
You need to present to companies the advantages of Uganda as an investment location. And the advantages could be infrastructure, could be a skilled working force, could be cheap working force, but one factor which is very important is good governance.
A company coming here wants to earn money after all, and they want to engage in business, they don’t want to lose money. They need administrative structures that enable them start right away. They get frustrated if they have to wait for two years for a licence, or if they have to buy a licence because some motivation is necessary for some civil servant.
But if you are at place 139 on the corruption perception index, then this condition is just not met. But on the other side, Uganda has considerably improved on the doing business index of the World Bank.

In the past you have praised Uganda’s regional peace initiatives, but the UPDF recently announced that it will withdraw from Somalia and Central African Republic. Won’t the move leave a vacuum in the areas?
I hope not. I know that Uganda has pulled out of the taskforce for the fight against LRA, but with regard to Somalia, I was told that there is a review on where Uganda stands now, how this mission is proceeding, and there is of course the concern that Uganda cannot stay there for ever, which is normal.
This review has not yet been finalised and we are waiting for the results. I would like to state that Germany is appreciating what Uganda is doing in Somalia, and we as part of the European Union are supporting this mission, and we hope that this review will take into consideration that what has already been achieved should not be lost.

The UPDF announced its plans to withdraw just after the EU announced that it was cutting its funding to Amisom by 20 per cent. What informed the EU decision?
I think the re-evaluation of Uganda’s participation in this mission it [cutting of funding] could be a factor, but not a decisive one. There are other factors like the Somalia government cooperating, the progress on the ground, the danger the Ugandan soldiers are exposed to, their exit strategy and of course the funding.
As for the EU, one has to say that the funding for African missions has increased but we have now many more hot spots where we have to support. Think of Boko Haram and what is going on in Mali.

Both Germany and Uganda have been victims of terrorism. Do you have any existing cooperation on fighting terror?
Uganda and Germany are closely cooperating in fighting terrorism. German soldiers participate at the European training mission to Amisom soldiers in Mogadishu, and Ugandan soldiers are in charge of security in Mogadishu, thus protecting also those German soldiers. And Germany is contributing to the EU funding of Amisom.

The world recently woke up to the shock that Britain will be leaving the EU. Being one of Uganda’s biggest trading partners, the question many had was how will it affect Uganda?
I can confirm that the UK is standing firmly to the EPA, the economic partnership agreement between the EAC and the European Union. So my British colleague has expressively announced that the UK will continue to support that.

In June Forbes Magazine ranked German Chancellor Angela Merkel the world’s most powerful woman for the sixth straight year. To what extent does that reflect German’s foreign policy?
I think in what I described as the German role on the international stage, there certainly the chancellor has the main impact, which is also appreciated by others.
Within the EU, a number of countries look at Germany, this is nothing that Germany has asked for but it comes with German’s position at the centre of the European Union and also being the most populated member state with 82 million and also with a relatively strong economy.
But this is a role that Germany has not asked for, it is something that has fallen on us. We are trying to deal with it, and it is also something the chancellor does apparently in a way that those journalists of Forbes decided to give her this ranking.

Your last word
One of the biggest assets of Uganda is at the same time Uganda’s biggest challenge, and that is the young people. Population now is 35 million, 70 million in 2040 and 100 million in 2050. And I believe many of the challenges Uganda has derive from population growth, such as absorption of all these people in the education system, the health system, the labour market. Think of the land issue: division of land between siblings will even make subsistence economy impossible in the long run and contribute to urbanisation.
To cope with all these problems will be possible if these young people get a chance. A chance to participate, and that must be at the centre of Uganda politics.