Museveni does not listen anymore - Nagenda

From the horse’s mouth. Senior Presidential Adviser John Nagenda is a tenaciously thoughtful man. He picks his words, sometimes painfully, to say so little about so much. This week, however, in unprecedented style, he took off his gloves calling the President autocratic, Cabinet very supine, Mugisha Muntu, a gentleman, Olara Otunnu, a joke; Norbert Mao, childish, Tamale Mirundi, poorly bred and Nandala Mafabi, an improvement of Besigye. He also spoke of how President Museveni should go about with the succession and how the First Lady is the only ‘opposition’ member in Cabinet.

There is growing public belief that President Museveni and his family could be hiding behind Mehta Group to grab Mabira Forest land?
Well, I don’t have any proof of this. I think if they were, that would be regrettable indeed. What I personally find more believable is that the President is the kind of person who wants to win all his wars. The first was four years ago, if you remember. And even then I wrote and said, how do we take such a drastic step before we have the highest authorities in the world tell us what the result will be? You may be a very brainy person but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you know everything in the world, in this case the ecosystem and how it works.

I find that the majority doesn’t seem to be behind this idea (of giving away the forest for sugarcane growing) and I think that the majority is right in this case but it doesn’t mean that the majority are always right [but] because the arguments are so overpowering in this case. I mean, what happens if by removing some of these trees that have been there for millions of years and for you to cut it down for sugar, it is unthinkable.

So, I think that the President has stated his position very vigorously because he felt it was unfinished business. I know that the First Lady and Ms Mehta know each other and call each other friends but I don’t necessarily jump to conclusions that there are some sinister reasons to do with the First Family making tonnes of money by selling trees and so on, all of which I have heard.

In the circumstances, what legal mechanisms may be available for Cabinet to restrain the President from going on with such an action which subverts the national interest?
Cabinet is a very interesting thing. Let me state it this way, the President is a very strong person and being president, and before that, head of the National Resistance Army/Movement, he has got to do what he wants to do and that is fine if it goes the right way. I have always found Cabinet very supine, very weak in the face of a strong move by the President whether this is because they have been chosen specifically because they are weak and run in fear of the President, that I don’t know. I remember saying [this] when my cousin, Apolo Nsibambi, was still Prime Minister until he got very annoyed saying that I had insulted them by saying all of them were very weak.

[What] I think is that the present Prime Minister Amama Mbabazi will [not] face off with the President and say, sir, this is wrong. I have a feeling that he sees his job to be making the President get his way.

Interestingly enough, I was told that recently when there was opposition in Cabinet on some matter it was the First Lady who said no. On Temangalo, she was displeased with what happened and thought that the people involved should have been punished.

So it would be a very interesting thing to me to see whether Ms Museveni will prove to be the catalyst for change and the catalyst to say to her husband “no, I don’t think so.”

I think the more likely place where meaningful opposition can take place is Parliament and to my great joy, I have heard that Parliament is where the people are talking about the unsuitability of giving away Mabira Forest. That is fantastic and may they continue doing so and it is the duty of all citizens of this country to offer advice and that has to be listened to.

One of the greatest things is that I have been a member of the Movement but the one thing which really impressed me apart from their fight in politics and roads, there were meetings that were held after work where discussions were held, say at a fireplace, and things were talked quite frankly. I remember once when the President turned around and said “these primitive people like Nagenda really hate my Indians” and I said to him that the reason why hate these Indians of yours is because they are thieves.

And then, if what I heard is true about the [NRM parliamentary] caucus, some of the caucus people seem not to have been bold over this Mabira thing. You see, if you have a very strong party in government and you are running government and you have a very weak opposition which cases are both true in Uganda, then how are you going to get the flavour of what people think if you have a caucus that is just going to rubber stamp something? Then it becomes useless and we have got to hammer it home for our people that to disagree is not to hold one in disrespect.

I noticed that the President said he doesn’t need lessons on Mabira because he is the one who saved Mabira from Idi Amin. Well, I am very, very, sorry but the thought is quite high in people’s thinking that there is something magical about the Asian investors. For example, I wouldn’t have given away Mabira to anybody if that is what Amin was going to do and if I was going to do so I would give it to our people.

So I just sat here and I ruminated and I thought what is happening to the President, he is somebody who is very logical and very reasonable because if you put your case strongly enough with relevant data then you could easily win him over. But now, I just wonder because now there is this and I don’t how to call it and to me I find it most disappointing.

What happened to the radicals of the NRM/A, who came from the bush, like Gen. Kahinda Otafiire who used to take contrary positions to the President? Do we still have those kinds of people in the Movement?
I have to tell you that with Gen. Otafiire, I wonder if he was a real radical or he was playing at being a radical. The harm that he has done to the Uganda Wild Life Authority when he was the relevant minister is frightful. When you ask a question like that, it is very difficult to go back and say that this is where the radicals stopped but I remember my old friend the late James Wapakhabulo, he was somebody who couldn’t just go forward without a reason.

He was a well spoken gentleman, he would say “no”, he was among the top radicals and we really lost him. Nsibambi is liberal but again he is somebody who will come out and say what he thinks is right. There are other people but when I looked at this new government, it is true that is probably my fault because I hardly know any of these people and I thought that with these sorts of people, who is going to come out and really argue a strong case, eh?

I think being a revolutionary is an interesting state because when they are fighting an enemy there and you are here, then it gives you a lot of work to do. But the Movement has been in power for 25 years but I think you have to work at your radicalism because you can’t, everyday, have the same zest and enthusiasm. But what would frighten me is if people thought that anytime you criticise the President in Cabinet or when you are interviewed, then it seems as if you are against the President and people will then say ok, you don’t need any more interruptions and I know some people who have started doing that.