LIVE UPDATES DAY 2: Oil Debate in Parliament

10:21pm:- House adjourned to October 25.
• Speaker says what Lyomoki has suggested is part of the procedures of the House and isn’t new.
• Speaker thanks all the members for the work you have done in the few days and remind the government will bend backwards to consider the laws which we have asked for.
• Lyomoki moves to say the persons to be on the adhoc committee observe the highest moral standards. He defends his statement by saying that from all areas, we have seen this involves a lot of money which seems to be exchanging hands. We need to put a clause so that the members remain true to the investigations
• Speaker puts the question on resolution 10 and it is was passed.
• Nandala says Onek has signed an MoU that nothing be made but when he left, people changed the agreement- I therefore want to propose that those officials who changed the resolutions….
• Speaker rules Nandala out of order that those will be investigated

10:00pm:-Ali says because of corruption this debate becomes bi-partisan and I have seen there is an element of some people who seem to be loosing confidence in government. Why am saying that is because there are 3 arms of government and out of the 3 its only the executive to sanction the inquiry.
• Ali says if you appoint your committee, what if it takes one year or two years and you come with your conclusions, and you want implementation of those resolutions, who will implement them, except the executive? We must trust each other lest we refuse to implement your decisions.

• Ali said he has seen there is no order because people have refused to respect others- so I ill also behave like them buy refusing to take order. What order are you talking about now?

• Ssekikubo says there is an issue which should be handled well. We are carrying out an inquiry and some members of cabinet have been found on the wrong side of the law and are suspects.

• Mbabazi moves on point of order saying; “Is it in order for Ssekikubo to claim and assert that some members of cabinet have been found which means that judgment has already been passed. Who has found that judgment and where? As far as am concerned, am innocent as anyone could be. For anyone to say am suspect when you just produced a mere document from an embassy is absolutely out of the world.”

• Speaker rules that no findings have been made. Let us not pre-judge until the end of investigations.

• Tumwiine amends the motion for the period of three months and we think its too long. Enough is enough with corruption and there is no smoke without fire and everybody on this floor has agreed with investigations and as all of you have said, what a wonderful opportunity to fight corruption.

• Tumwiine says Parliament asks the President that those alleged should be sent on leave until the investigations are made and that the adhoc committee reports within one month.

• Nandala says one month would be okay but given the distances of Malta, UK, Dubai. The distance isn’t like travelling to Arua. We don’t need them to be a hurry to make a poor work, but if they can finish in 30 days, it’s okay for us.

• Nandala also tabled ‘classified document presented before the caucus.’

• Joy Ongom says rules which talk about leadership and I appeal that please step aside and leave way for investigation. I ask that you put a question with amendment made by Sseninde.

• Speaker puts question on clause 9 (a) of adhoc committee as amended.

9:44pm:- Katongole says he knows that some legal firms had applied and didn’t get the contract like Katuntu whose company wanted a contract but failed to get one. He says we shouldn’t fight our people because of hearsay.

• Katuntu says Katongole has made an allegation. First of all I first met Sigh years back when I was acting for a financial institution which Katongole owed money and I was ordered by the company to attach the old buses which Katongole owned.

• Katuntu says since that time I have never interacted with Katongole. It is true I own a law firm but since my Parliament I am a passive advocate there because am busy. Am not an oil lawyer, none of my lawyers is an oil lawyer. I have never had a slightest contact with any oil firm. These are diversionary tactics and he mentions my name so that I be diverted which I wont.

• Katuntu says Katongole should substantiate his allegations to the law firm Katuntu & Company advocates. In any case, am ready for any investigations if they so wish.

• Katongole says the person representing the firm swindled the money owed by those buses …(speaker rules him out of order)

• Asuman Kiyingyi says he wants to make a contribution on the amendment made by Sseninde which says ‘all government officers mentioned must relinquish their offices with immediate effect’.

He says what is good for the legislature is good for the executive too and we should be consistent with what we say. The standard is that when you are accused, you can appeal your innocence while you maintain your seat. That is why some MPs have lost their seats where they have stayed in Parliament as they appeal they positions.

• Kiyingyi says since allegations have been made against Katuntu, I can also ask that he steps aside.

• Gen Moses Ali says he wants to warn you to be ready to have quinine to take. He says he has discovered that the two sides have merged and the reason for doing so is to fight corruption. Is this the beginning? For how long shall this take? And how are we doing to get this work against us. What method are we going to use?

9:32pm:- Speaker says the one matter about the need to investigate has been unanimous and no one should derail. She asks the members to address point 9 on the matter rather than derail.

• Xavier Kyooma says the affected ministers shall come before the committee and the truth will come out and discussed before the Parliament.

• Singh Katongole (his first speech in parliament- introduces himself) says that he will also fight corruption until the corruption isn’t in the country. Katongole says he supports the amendment by Sseninde but amends part 2 of the amendment. He says some oil companies which are fighting for some contracts are circulating such documents and they have personal interest.

9:30pm:- Tinkasimire says he would support the amendment but adding that on top of those to be investigated we add companies which are in the center of the oil industries like those shipping food from Kampala as if in Bunyoro cant find food to feed their workers.

• Nyakecho says Parliament wants to fight corruption but MPs should search their hearts and find out how many of us are clean. I know many members who are using corruption to fight corruption.

• Speaker says she has abandoned the argument.

• Betty Aol on point of order says the motion was put but a member decided to debate proving to us that she is one of those corrupt people. Is she in order to declare that over 80 members of parliament are corrupt including her self?

• Speaker says the one matter about the need to investigate has been unanimous and no one should derail.

9:21pm:- Ekanya says in the last Parliament he insisted three times when then deputy speaker now speaker was chairing. Parliament has powers to approve ministers when appointed, we can as well disapprove and we are just asking that they step aside.

• Wadri says the AG Nyombi should know that decisions to step aside don’t need to have laws but precedents can be followed. If therefore they cant appeal to their consciences, then article 118 of the constitution which provides for censure motion shall be invoked and it will make them more incredible.

• Wadri says there have been adhoc and select committees like into police, and elections but such investigations have never seen the day. He says he prays that such a matter should be given urgency.

• Ssegoona says they step aside in personal interest or be retired in public hearing. Ssegoona says that VP information from President that we are here wasting time because they have already been investigated. Ssegoona says on matters that touch international boarders to investigate the minister of foreign affairs who speaks good English outside of the country. He also says we can’t use police which is headed by Hillary Onek the minister of internal affairs.

• Ssegoona says when doing oversight, you can’t ask someone to do your job. He says we cant also go through the select committees where members are proposed by the party whips. The gallery is full, it is past 9pm and people are still here seated. Outside the parliament people are watching although not hearing because of machinations of the government.

• Ssekikubo says the Statehouse can continue with their investigations but as parliament we proceed to do our own investigations to set up an dhoc committee without any further reference to government.

• Ssegoona says the suspected ministers should be save us the time, and resources and step aside because it is wisdom.

• Betty Nambooze says history has given us an opportunity to define what type of parliament we are. I want to base on the code of conduct as envisaged in the rules of procedure of parliament. I move that a question be put.

9:13pm:- Kategaya says the proposal by Sseninde hasn’t been pronounced on by the whole House and the commission of inquiry should be put up because we avoid being judges in our own court and that justice should be seen to be done.

• Ssekikubo says when we set up a committee of parliament, we once in a while interface with the members of the front bench. The committee of Parliament is provided for under article 90 which provides about the committees of Parliament. He says the speaker should advise and they support the amendment of Sseninde and the matter be put to question.

• Wadri says Kategaya should remember his earlier statements when he changed from Movement to opposition and went back after saying ‘a man only turns in bed.’ Wadri says people have already made resolutions that can’t turn like Kategaya wants us to turn even when he is not in bed.

• Wadri says all the allegations have been done by ministers under the watchful eye of government and we can’t allow the same government to investigate them.

• Wadri said that there is no law for ministers to step aside but that they appeal to their conscience.

• Mathias Mpuuga says having heard from the VP that President Museveni already has his investigations and has a report and he didn’t find anybody culpable and it will be the same President if we go the judicial commission way. Let us proceed as Parliament.

Wadri says Kategaya should remember his earlier statements when he changed from Movement to opposition and went back after saying ‘a man only turns in bed.’ Wadri says people have already made resolutions that can’t turn like Kategaya wants us to turn even when he is not in bed.

• Wadri says all the allegations have been done by ministers under the watchful eye of government and we can’t allow the same government to investigate them.

• Wadri said that there is no law for ministers to step aside but that they appeal to their conscience.

• Mathias Mpuuga says having heard from the VP that President Museveni already has his investigations and a report and he didn’t find anybody culpable and it will be the same President if we go the judicial commission way. Let us proceed as Parliament.

9:03pm:- Chris Baryomunsi says UBC cut off the sound on their TV sets so that Ugandans don’t hear voices but only see people talking. Minister Karooro should explain. The Ministers can relinquish their positions as ministers but remain as MPs.

• Baryomunsi has said that even government officers to be interdicted should also be named in the resolution.

• AG Nyombi says the procedure to set up commissions of inquiry is regulated by the Commissions of Inquiry Act. He says Parliament isn’t given authority to set up such a commission of inquiry. Nyombi says he supports the proposal by Sseninde that we set up either a select committee or an adhoc committee.

• Nyombi says when making resolutions we should be cognizant of the law and we should always cite laws where ministers should relinquish their seats. He says when he looks at the constitution, he doesn’t see anywhere where a minister can be required to step a side.

• Nyombi says Parliament should cite laws under which the ministers should be out of their offices.

• Eriya Kategaya says he is making his short contribution on number 9 about a suggestion of making adhoc committee or a commission of inquiry. My view is that adhoc committee is not enough. Rules of parliament state that adhoc committee can be set up on the advice of the business committee.

• Kategaya says the matters is a weighty matter and a lot of information has been put on table and the best would be a commission of inquiry.

• Kategaya says Parliament shouldn’t be seen as judges in this matter because the views of this house are now known. He says his view is to make a commission of inquiry as proposed in motion.

• Sseninde says Kategaya should describe who is government? The people who are implicated are the ones who will set up the commission?

• Niwagaba says the movers of the motion have already consented to the proposed amendment of Sseninde.

• Sseninde says it should be Parliament to study the matters and investigate it thoroughly.

• Kategaya says there is a government headed by President Museveni. He also says the fact that many commissions have been put up with no reports, means that the House has the right to demand the production of the reports.

8:54pm:- Rosemary Sseninde moves an amendment on resolution 9 (a) reads that ‘parliament sets up an adhoc committee on investigations in the time frame as the speaker may so rule’- she says it should be an adhoc committee is the matter before us is corruption and not oil. She says the select committee rules says members should be designated by party whips which she doesn’t agree with.

• Sseninde says a commission of inquiry doesn’t mean sense because we have had many but reports have never been seen. She also says Parliament should set up its own committee because its is this very parliament which has seen the important of fighting corruption and the same parliament should conclude the issue.

• Sseninde also makes another amendment “that all government officials named in the discussion of this debate…..and other officers in other offices must be relinquish their offices with immediate effect pending the completion and laying a report of the investigative committee to this parliament.” She says the reason is because in public service if an officer is under investigation that officer is interdicted pending investigations.

• Sseninde also mentions examples in KENYA where ministers were accused of corruption and even in other countries and they give way until investigations are done with. She also appealed to the Parliament to be counted and I also want to be counted as a person who doesn’t want corruption in this country & if the mentioned officers are patriotic and nationalistic as they have always said, they should relinquish their positions so that they become examples to this country that they fight corruption and if they are innocent they come back to their position.

8:44pm:- Resolution 9 government sets up commission of inquiry headed by justice of the high court to investigate individuals who are alleged to have received kickbacks.

• Musinguzi Yona says he wants to amend and say that “Parliament sets up a committee of inquiry which can co-opt the Justice of a high court” since its Parliament is responsible for bringing the information

• Henry Musasizi says considering the importance of the matter that is going to be investigated and considering the sensitivity the matter will involve and that principles of good governance must be upheld, I move that parliament sets up a committee fully constituted by MPs and makes a report and the necessary discussion be made to it.

• Andrew Baryayanga says Karuhanga mentioned allegations of the ministers who are alleged to have received kickbacks, and proposes an amendment including the Permanent Secretary Ministry of Energy.

• Baryayanga tabled a report purporting that state ministers Lokeris and Dujang are integrated into the corruption and that PS Energy Kabagambe Kalisa also get that.

• Simon D’jang says a hearsay document shouldn’t be tabled to tarnish his name. He says he is ready to be investigated. He says it’s a malicious document with out source so that those tabling falsehoods shall be shamed.

• Lokeris says he has heard his name being ‘integrated’ because as far as am concerned, I have not gone through any camps and I don’t know if its integration through osmosis.

8:16pm:- Dombo says the amendment reads “subject to the provisions of article 41 of the constitution, government shall desist from executing any contracts with a clause of confidentiality.”

• Jack Mamai says the issues of oil aren’t a secret and shouldn’t be mixed with security and that even with security, there are some magazines which publish all arms and the number of soldiers and each country has.

• Wamai says he also has respect for Museveni that when we start producing oil, we shall become members of oil producing countries and then we can’t hide how much we produce. He says there are sate lights in the air which know how much the oil we have and where they are located. It can’t be hidden forever.

• Wafula Oguttu says last Friday with some MPs visited the oil well at Kaiso Tonya and that Tullow officials informed us that they have already signed the extracting transparency protocols. What will you be hiding when the companies are not hiding? This argument that we need to protect- what is it? Is it about oil and its disputable to say the oil wells can be bombed because these days with GPRs there is nothing you can hide.

• Richard Twodong says he appreciates the members and what initiative they have but article 41 (1) every citizen has a right of access to information in the possession of the state except where the information is likely to subject the nation’s security. (2) Parliament shall make laws prescribing those laws as indicated in section (1)- do we need to amend the constitution now?

• Onek says when he talked about patriotism he meant in all manners on subjects and no one should pass a judgment on him because of the photocopies of the allegations on documents.

• Wamai says if you hide information from MPs, who is privy to that information, therefore all information should be in the know. He says Ugandans are all happy especially after loosing the Cranes match and that Ugandans are only looking at this debate. He says some parliaments in other countries even fight and throw chairs.

• Betty Aol says the oil is a potential area of conflict if we insist on confidentiality. She adds on the amendment on Dombos’ amendment saying oil matter should be more transparent even beyond article 41.

• Speaker puts question of Resolution 8 and its passed.

8:02pm:- Nyombi says in those countries where agreements are made public, certain clauses are left out. From our research, International petroleum agreements do normally have that clause, for purposes of protecting the use of intellectual properties, data and protect information that the parties to the agreement may wish to protect. We may wish to do away with confidential clauses.

Dombo Emanuel says we have just approved resolution number 7 which requires government to join the transparency initiative. One of the requirements is that you must publish what you earn and what you are getting. I attended an seminar in Norway on on the same.

• Dombo says 8 reads as follows; Government desists from executing any oil contracts with confidentiality and the right to access to information shall be respected.

• Nyombi says Dombo has brought it vey well. He says we must be aware that there are certain things which cant be disclosed, like security and sovereignty.

• JANET MUSEVENI says the conduct of the House cant allow us to understand and hear each other and understand where we are going. I think what were are doing here although important, the way we are doing it makes it so useless.

• Nsereko Muhammad moves on a point of order and says its true that we are here for patriotic reasons and that whoever is present here cant be termed in a way that is useless. The MPs who are seated here to study laws, can’t be deemed to be debating uselessly. It is in this spirit that Janet Museveni is on in order.

• Speaker says there was a lot of work going on and she didn’t want to disrupt it and call a session like this. Its not proper to say what we are saying us useless.

• Speaker says she doesn’t agree that she has been repetitious because she hasn’t been speaking of recent but I agree that the word useless is objectionable. Just withdraw it.

• Museveni says what she wanted to mean is that as rules state, whenever a member is speaking others must be quiet but that hasn’t been happening. Does that make what we have been discussing useful?

• Cerinah Nebanda, Madam speaker you have made a ruling that she withdraws, she hasn’t done that.

• Speaker says Museveni should withdraws the word useless and continues with her presentation.

• Museveni says she wanted to withdraw the word by saying ‘is it useful to continue the business the way we are?’ I withdraw the word ‘useless’. She says she wanted to read the rules of procedure to remind you. Rule 70 (c) “it says while a member is speaking, all members should be silent and will not make unseeming discussions.”

7:56pm:- Speaker says the AG should give us the rationale of the laws.

• AG Nyombi says whenever he takes to the floor, Tinkasimire shouts ‘black mamba.’ He says we are at liberty to delete clauses of confidentiality but we have carried out research about these clauses.

• Nyombi says a country like Cadistan doesn’t have a law regulating the oil sector so the agreements become the law. There are two other countries Ghana and Egypt. He says those countries, although the agreements are in public domain, certain clauses which are confidential aren’t inserted in the agreement.

7:48pm:- Bitekyerezo says he cried when allegations of kickbacks were talked about and that in order to avoid such future happenings, we need to break the confidentiality clauses.

• Harriet Ntabazi says she appreciates the members’ efforts to collect all the information from their sources because ministers weren’t in position to get us that information. She says one of the great things one can do even in a home is when you hide information even to your husband or to your boyfriend, the relations gets problems even if that relationship was very strong.

• Ntabazi says he can quote some information got from seminars of the Auditor General over classified information. She says those are matters of defence and ammunition but not a matter of national importance like this one where every Ugandan is interested and agitating, how can we hide information?

• Waila Majegere says whenever you hide something so much, chances are high that rats will eat it from where you are hiding it. Already the oil money is being eaten by the rats. At least so far we know the big rats, what about the small rats which have been eating on? It is important that we don’t hide any information.

• Ntabazi says the oil in the country, the president made it clear that if the oil is produced very well, it will change the life of Ugandans even at the lower level. People are already sending us messages that we are doing a wonderful job.

• Ntabazi says children as young as 3 years ask a lot of questions and when you don’t answer them well, once they get it for themselves, then you get exposed. Let there be no information to hide from the Parliament which has the peoples’
representatives. In any case the agreements we are hiding are on the internet, we have failed to know what we are hiding.

7:43pm:- Medard Bitekyerezo says since yesterday he wanted to speak but didn’t get the chance. He says one of the reasons we are here is because of confidentiality. He says he signed the petition and doesn’t regret and doesn’t seek pardon from anyone. Let us not hide our heads in the sand when our other parts are outside.

• Ssegoona gives information that actually Article 41 of the constitution is self contained. We are all consumers of this security of the country and we all love the Uganda equally. We are not talking about guns because we don’t want to know how many guns Uganda has. It is right to protect the intellectual property but let us remmebr that formulae of intellectual property isn’t in the agreements. There is nothing to hide; we need information about our oil.

7:38pm:- Resolution 8 says Government desists from executing contracts with confidentiality clauses.

• Gen Tumwiine says he would like to give caution on areas which may throw this country into trouble because confidentiality is important in some cases for the sake of security.

• Gen Tumwiine says there is need for confidentiality even in businesses and he said he was glad the Speaker had already given guidelines on how to access these clauses.

• Tumwiine says they insert a word ‘when it is necessary’ because of the security of the country.

• Jovah Kamateka says she seeks an amendment on resolution 8 to cater for intellectual property that ‘Government desists from executing contracts with confidentiality clauses except where intellectual property is concerned.’

7:32pm:- Raphael Magyezi amends resolution 6 to prepare and make sure parliament gets the statement of what has been incurred.

• Maria Kiwanuka said as far as a moratorium is concerned is governed by the budget Act, appropriations Act Parliament in their wisdom authorized the use of Shs826m for financing Karuma hydro project.

• I can’t commit to say 7 days since am not in the accounts department I can’t promise to get them certified as soon as possible.

• Speaker says in order to save Karuma, can we take into account that the Karuma money was used?

• Okupa says the resolution is about a moratorium on nay further expenditure- the one of Karuma is okay.

• Katuntu says once we pass the budget the money is already expended. We are talking about the revenues which were accrued after this debate. We don’t want a situation where you keep referring to the Ninth Parliament for failing the Karuma project.

• Ajedra Gabriel says the project like Karuma doesn’t take one day because it takes long with procurement. Karuma is very safe and the minister should feel comfortable.

• Judith Franca says unless the Minister says Karuma money is over and she wants more. The statement is clear about money which has already been expended. We are talking about the money that will be spent after this motion is passed.

• Okot Ogong says when he is going to his home, he passes in Karuma and he should be told where the Karuma money is.

• Ssebunya says once Parliament appropriated during the budget and once they say stop the expenditure, it means that the Karuma money will be affected.

• Speaker put the question and the resolution was approved

• Resolution 7 also passed

7:20pm:- Resolution 5: “an account for all proceeds be made in Parliament showing what has been received and expended from where and what within 7 days on capital gains tax, not tax revenues, signature.

• Maria Kiwanuka Minister of Finance says all the revenue information will be laid before the House within 7 days as required.

• Ssekikubo says they add another leg on state participation.

• Epetait says the record should be corrected as numbering that the prayer which appears as number 5 appears as continuation. “an account of all revenues so far received and the expenditures.”

Speaker rules that there are 2 legs that one is on revenues and the and the second is on expenditures.

• Benard Atiku demands that Minister Kiwanuka explains what Nandala has asked previously of money taking 2 weeks before reaching one account
• Resolution 5 is passed

7:14pm:- Starting resolution 4.

• Speaker says in law we are not allowed to make unquestionable contracts- she puts the question and the resolution was passed.

7:09pm:- Katuntu says the AG should first realize that there is the decision and that is what the court decided. How is that subjudice to any court in anywhere in the world? There is nothing subjudice as contained in the resolution and the speaker it is your rule

• Speaker says she read the judgment of Ogoola and the MPs are asking that you make use of it that in my country this is the law we have been using.

• AG Nyombi says he took note of the comments made by Ssegoona in effect saying that tax tribunals aren’t established by law yet I have the facts on that. What the appellant was saying is to appeal the tax assessment.

• Epetait says AG is misleading the house by putting words in Ssegoona’s mouth by misinterpreting the laws.
• Speaker put the question that resolution 3 be passed by the House

7:00pm:- Katuntu says any decision for a court of law is subject to discussion. The judgement being talked about is that government should take note of the decision. Subjudice doesn’t mean that you don’t say anything at all because that would be absurd. It means don’t discuss anything that will make the court be unduly influenced.

6:59pm:- Ssegoona says there is nothing that precludes a party from discussing his case.

• Katuntu says any decision for a court of law is subject to discussion. The judgement being talked about is that government should take note of the decision. Subjudice doesn’t mean that you don’t say anything at all because that would be absurd. It means don’t discuss anything that will make the court be unduly influenced.

6:54pm:- Nyombi says the second case is before London courts where Heritage took Government of Uganda alleging that Uganda shouldn’t have exerted the tax collected by URA. What heritage wants to do is to get what we collected and take it back. Our position is that taxation be governed by the laws of Uganda.

• Nyombi says the second part of the resolution is subjudice to both here and London, so it should be amended or expunged because the first part is okay.

• Vicent Mujuni Kyamadidi says he has been internally bleeding as a member of NRM and I sympathize with the AG because he has nothing to say other than what you have said. The technical people have sold this country and signed the contracts in London and signed well aware that arbitration would happen. I now suggest that whereas most of us are bleeding, we must debate these things soberly.

• Medard Ssegoona says the rule of subjudice shouldn’t be used anyhow but rules say ‘reference shall not be made on any matter in such a way when the speaker finds it sub judicial to the matter before court”.

• Ssegoona says a court as defined by the constitution as established by the constitution of Uganda but London courts aren’t established by this constitution. He also asks the AG how the second part affects the matter in court.

6:48pm:- Resolution that government produces to parliament all agreements it has on oil business and memoranda and takes into consideration the case in a Ugandan court…

• Attorney General Peter Nyombi says Heritage took URA to court challenging the authority of URA to charge the tax gains tax in court. The case is still before the tax appeals tribunal. Our position is that taxation should be governed by the Ugandan laws however Heritage is challenging the URA that it shouldn’t have charged them the tax.

6:46pm:- Resolution 2 that government brings the necessary laws in 30 days before Parliament is also approved.

6:43pm:- Nsereko Muhammad says he has started sensing a delaying tactic. What is wrong with 30 days? First of all the government didn’t want the debate not to happen, why the panic? What is wrong with halting the transactions for only 30 days?

• Okot-Ogong says that he moved a motion and I beg the question to be put.

• Speaker puts the question and number 1 is approved by the House

6:42pm:- Ekanya says AG yesterday said some of the matters could be subjudice and speaker you ruled on that, and therefore I seek your guidance because debating on matters of tax is subjudice to the London courts of law and we delete any such debates from the Hansard.

6:40pm:- Peter Lokeris says some information is misinformation. He says you can’t sell what doesn’t belong to you. By the time Heritage sold to Tullow, the licenses were still on. And as they were discussing, ENI came in and said am buying and government said if you are pre-empting doing, they sold their interest in the area and after that, there was a problem of tax. And that is when the licensee elapsed.

6:38pm:- Katuntu says the legal position is that we own kingfisher area as seen in the instruments of Minister Onek. His view is that when we read clause 9, we shall have to re-draft it because now what belongs to us is not the tax but the well itself.

6:36pm:- Speaker asks that clerk reads number 10 aloud so that all members can understand.

• Ssekikubo says he is worried in fact other than the so called capital gains tax, let members look at number 11 where we getting 11 percent. If we go that way, it means we are being co-opted to be part of the game.

• Katuntu says by the time they made the motion, they hadn’t gotten some of the information which they wanted. Otherwise they would have not put number 10 as it is. We have since established that Tullow-Heritage transaction was void. Number 10 we are talking about collecting tax because at that time we only knew that about tax but now we have heard that the transaction was void at initial.

6:33pm:- Okot-Ogong moves under rule 68 on resolution 1, because as you are aware we have debated this matter since yesterday on the same resolution. We have got a number of conflicting information from the minister and now its clear resolution 1 has no problem. It just gives government time to put their house in shape. The question should be put.

• Banyenzaki says when he moved to amend resolution 1, he absolutely agree with Katuntu and PM position because number 10 captures a transaction between Total, Tullow & CNOOC which has a capital gains tax of 900m, and when you say cease, it means even that will be stopped.

6:27pm:- Ssekikubo says just a while ago, we were proceeding transparently until the minister summer salted. He says none of the regulations were followed. Katuntu should cease all consultations until we move on the same page.

• Ssekikubo says when we petitioned, speaker asked us to give you all prayers so that government prepares and comes with information. Can we proceed and put the matters to vote?

6:24pm:- Ekanya says he has no problem with number 1 but his concern is number 10 in relation to the tax. We are all here because of money and you can’t runaway from tax because the responsibility is yours.

• Speaker proposes that they stand over number 1 for now and move to number 2 because the PM and his team are consulting. Katuntu & Niwagaba are consulting

6:21pm:- Mbabazi says he has been carrying out consultations with the line minister & we are considering giving a position on this that may unite us, but we are worried about the possible implications in number 10 because I was worried that supposing we were to concede number 1, which would mean no execution of oil contracts which in effect means putting into effect those already existing contracts, until the necessary laws have been passed.

• Mbabazi says in resolution 2 says government produces the laws within 30 days. When I was looking at resolution 10, which says government withholds the consent of the transaction between Tullow, Total & CNOOC before tax assessed by URA is paid, I wouldn’t want to loose that money. If I can be disabused of this fear, I would be happy to concede.

6:18pm:- Wadri Kassiano says when we resumed, we started considering clause by clause of the motion which was tabled and in considering the prayers, suggestions have come in but Gen Tumwiine has taken us aback and ignored the speaker ruling on the debate.

• Tonny Ayo stands to seek clarification from Onek if he will won the documents laid on table by Katuntu. And five months after he left, the new Minister changed positions and we need to know if such positions which changed are legal?

6:14pm:- Tumwiine says let us not pull the child in one hand and maim him, let us keep the child healthy. He says his experience in the general court martial that you first listen to both sides and then make a best judgment. Today we were hear the individuals who were implicated defending themselves and am still waiting for government to give its side.

• Tumwiine says he is concerned because Uganda is for everyone. Article 244 of the constitution provides on how we can manage the oil and minerals. It provides that Parliament shall make laws. He says government has been following the laws; the argument is on acquisition- do we keep the old or the new?

• Speaker asks Prime Minister if the licensees are expired, what we are renewing.

• Tumwiine says there a few aspects which have been put forward and am certainly sure there are others which still kept and which could be committal if you say put a moratorium to government that we stop transactions …

6:10pm:- Tanna says the matter is bi-partisan and so he requests that resolutions 1, 2 & 10 be passed together because they are one and the same and the purpose is the same. The question should be put now Madam Speaker.

• Elly Tumwiine says there is momentum since the other day at the prayer breakfast and in Independence because UPC also participated in the parade. He says he has seen unity in the House against corruption. Many people talked about the love for Uganda and it sent me far to think of an example I could give. There is a story in the bible of the 2 women who were fighting for the child.

6:04pm:- Ssebunya says the Minister should tell us the period she will bring the laws

Tanna Sanjay says there is no problem in the resolution because the Minister Muloni herself said the laws are ready and that they have suspended any further licensing because the laws are ready. I don’t see why she is not opening up.

• Mariam Nalubega says resolution 1 should stay because the policy of petroleum and gas there is a clause that the Ministry recommends the creation of an authority since we have so far lost more than $1bn which would be in capital gains, if we go ahead and sign more contracts, it would be unfortunate and so the resolution should stand as it is.

6:01pm:- Kiiza Winifred gives information that the Eighth Parliament, the law on Traditional leaders was passed in one day. This parliament is so interested in the laws relating to oil, even if they bring the laws right now; we can sit until midnight to pass the laws.

• Speaker says when we went on recess, there was no business from government that is why I commissioned the committees of parliament to do our work. But am prepared to create time for those oil laws.

6:00pm:- Robert Ssebunya says his prayer to the House is that we look at resolution 1&2 almost concurrently so that when we talk about specific laws we mention the laws. He also says if we wait until Parliament passes the necessary laws, we know how Parliament works so we need to give ourselves the necessary time.

5:58pm:- Funagroo Kaps that resolution number 1 stands because it seems there is a lot which has been washed under the water and all agreements be put down. He says MPs should protect the integrity of Parliament and the Speaker and no one should withdraw from the fight.

5:55pm:- Katuntu reads another one September 17 2010 addressed to Tullow, Heritage Mauritius and UK on King Fisher field in exploration area 3A., saying the period of applying for the licensee expired in February and the Minister was directing that the area had ceased being in their hands. The letter also directed that they cease carrying out any activity in this area.(he lays the document)

• Katuntu says no wonder when Onek was on the floor he said there are decisions he had taken and when he left office, they were changed. Now that he left office, manipulations have come in seriously and the current minister is saying they are still in appraisal period yet Onek had issued an instrument for Tullow to cease operations in those areas. What are you going to renew when the contracts had expired?

• Speaker says it means the companies have no mandate to sue Parliament?

5:53pm:- Niwagaba says if a licensee who has made a discovery hasn’t applied for a production license there is a limit and if he hasn’t applied for the production licensee they have nothing and can’t give anything.

• Katuntu says he has two letters September 8, 2010 from Muloni’s office to G/`M Tullow which showed Tullow that their licence had expired and since then Government had taken back the area.(he tables the letter on table)

5:50pm:- Muloni says while he agrees with the facts he (Katuntu) has, the appraisal she is talking about is about the need to extend the period so that the appraisal is finished. Am stating the facts, that because of the transactions that were going on….

• Speaker says yesterday Niwagaba set out the conditions to be done before a renewal is made, and he punched holes in them which shows that if they are not done, it means they have expired

5:47pm:- Muloni says in according with section 13 of the Exploration Act, once a licensee expires and there is oil which has been discovered, the licensee stays with the area but relinquishes the other areas. The areas MPs are talking about are exploration areas 1, 2 & 3A and they are under appraisal.

• Katuntu says we are here to speak facts and he is to challenge the minister. The exploration licensee for area 3A expired in 2010 and area 1 expired in December 2010. And I can actually assure you that this information comes from your office.

5:44pm:- Katuntu says he would pray and seek their indulgence that resolution 1 be left the way it is. And I would like to caution the scare politics of talking about investors…we are cleaning our house and once you clean the house, there will always be dust and that dust will make people cough. A genuine investor will come regardless of what, except the quack investor.

5:42pm:- Katuntu says if we go ahead and change the resolution in number 1, we shall not have achieved anything from this debate.

• Ayenah says the crafting of the resolution was intent and there is no reason why we should add or subtract. In the addition of the word new will be redundant in the presence of the word ‘the necessary’ and with absolute reluctance if there was any need, we would put a bracket on law (s)

5:40pm:- Speaker says the Prime Minister isn’t being fair because yesterday we started at 2oclock and the government side wasn’t here until I suspended twice and you came. This morning I gave you opportunity and you spoke about different issues, the VP came and he also spoke about a particular issue- so how can I guess. And I also asked you if you were responding as Mbabazi or as a Prime Minister but you didn’t respond.

• Alice Alaaso, is it in order for the Prime Minister to intimidate the Speaker after she guided the house on what we are doing? Is the House safe when the Speaker is intimidated? ( MPs shouts---shame, shame, shame!)

5:37pm:- Amama Mbabazi says the way he understood the debate was that the motion would be made, seconded and there would be a full response from a government side so that the debate is balanced but as it turned out there has been the mover and the justification before the minister responsible for the sector actually responded fully. She would have answered all the questions which arose in the second-ment of the motion.

• Ssekikubo says since the debate started yesterday you allowed all sides opportunity to respond, is it procedurally right for the PM to stand here and go on record that speaker didn’t allow room for those with information in cabinet not to respond.

5:35pm:- Barnabas Tinkasimire says there is information from a management audit report of Ernest and Young of 206 clearly indicating even the contracts and a number or articles and clauses have not been observed. So give me a justification why these contracts should go one when the companies have not observed the contracts they signed.

5:30pm:- Abdu Katuntu says it would be in the interest of Parliament not to look at resolution 1 in isolation because it is intertwined in other resolutions like 1 & 10, they are similar. We shouldn’t be resolved in a way that resolution 10 becomes redundant. In government contracting CNOOC, Tullow and Total to firm in and farm out, it will have a legal impact on the already expired contracts. And we haven’t got an answer from the front bench.

5:26pm:- Isa Kukungwe says he wouldn’t agree with the situation where we would add the word new because we have people who aren’t trusted anymore and can backdate some contracts. I want to add that anybody who contravenes this resolution will be liable as a person to this parliament.

• Okot-Ogong says the document he has is from the Ministry of Energy about national oil and gas policy and on page 25 of the document shows action they have chosen to take, but it doesn’t show the laws of our oil, it also proposes to put in place a framework which isn’t in place now. So what are you talking about?

5:25pm:- Ssekikubo says they have information that by October 15, there are two undertakings between Tullow, Total and CNOOC...And we are saying halt that. Although we can consider what the Minister is saying, they are going to commit us under PSA 2 and those which have been going on now, we can allow but we want the minister to appreciate that we want halted the new commitments.

5:22pm:- Ibrahim Ssemuju says we are talking about two things; there are bad contracts which we have already entered into and then there are fresh ones we are almost getting into. What is the remedy for the bad ones which are already in place?

• Muloni says there is the Exploration Act which has been revised in 2000 and it’s what we have been using.

• Okupa moves on point of order to convince us when she a few minutes ago said government had suspended and now she says there are laws, is she in order to confuse us?

• Speaker says Muloni should explain what she means.

• Muloni says there is a law in place but following the discovery of huge deposits of our oil, we felt it would be necessary to increase the transparency but new licenses have been suspended and we have transactions which are going on and must be concluded and if we halt the contracts, we have capital gains tax which we shall not receive.

• Speaker: You mean you have subsistent contracts which are ongoing, but you need more laws for new contracts- let Ssekikubo give us a rationale of his motion.

5:18pm:- Rapheal Magyezi stands and says that MPs should pay attention to two issues on the prayer. One is executing oil contracts and me I think the issue should be executing new oil contracts and also to say the laws and list them.

• Chris Baryomunsi says the modern way of managing the oil resources isn’t by congesting the economy with no enabling law is called the Dutch disease.

5:15pm:- Irene Muloni, the minister of Energy says she requests that while we all an interest in ensuring that the oil resource in the country is handled well, whatever decisions we make me don’t impact and paralyze ourselves as a country.
• Muloni says however much we all try to want to be transparent and accountable…

• NYWARACH JOSHUA CARTER says I wonder how this endangers the economy of the country because it means to enter into any contract…we want to put a ban until there is the oil and gas policy. Let us not be fooled about paralyzing the economy.

• Speaker says when we halt all contracts means the existing ones will stop, which means the explorations will also stop. She wants an amendment to say only new contracts.

5:11pm:- Resolution 1 (halt all transactions and agreements until the laws and oil regime has been put in place) : Henry Banyenzaki opposes the resolution and stands saying that if we out a halt on executing oil contracts on the executive arm, it means as a government the effect of the economy and the signals to the investors is that the government cant honor its contractual obligations.

• Banyenzaki says it is a very wrong signal to the investors and the provisions will not save, because we shall continue incurring the costs.

• Banyenzaki proposes an amendment that within in 30 days, all agreements be tabled and they be included with an oil and gas policy.

5:05pm:- Ekanya Geoffrey says he wants to find out from Ms Kiwanuka based on the audited accounts because in 2004/2006 Ernest& Young indicated that the recoverable cost from oil by Heritage had been over claimed by $586511.

• Ekanya says all audited reports indicated that Heritage was over claiming

• Henry Musasizi says government didn’t have a chart of accounts and in this regard it becomes very difficult to analyze financial information. That government was relying ion the chat of accounts of the companies.

• Ignatius Besisira says when we were breaking for a lunch break, you ruled that there was a motion and after that you ruled that after that, we shall come and speak on the motion and vote on it- and Madam Speaker the motion is with us and some of the issues being raised in relation to revenues have a section about them in the motion.

• Besisira says there is something coming up, to show some side is more interested than the other side, which is wrong. He says the House moves on the motion and we agree onto it.

• Speaker says since the minister is around and her job is to be around, let her answer when we reach the section of those matters.

5:03pm:- Alice Alaaso says what she wants in regard to the revenue, is out of the five or so PSAs, why was there only one signature bonus accounted for? What happened to other signature bonuses? She should also tell us what happened to exploration area 3, which was subdivided into A, B & C. in that area, the certificate of the entire block was issued in 1998 and re-licensed to Emergency Africa, who gave them to Headman and then finally to Tullow. How much did you collect from all those changes?

• Amuriat Patrick asks the Finance Minister if her account shows that she received $300,000 for plot 2 and whether in respect of block 1, she received $3.5m

• Elijah Okupa says the Minister categorically stated the amount paid as revenue but she didn’t tell us how much Non Tax Revenue was collected.

5:02pm:- Hatwib Katoto says when money is being transacted; it takes some time- so it is not in order for a whole leader of opposition to ask such a thing.

• Speaker says the LoP was asking the Minister to explain the two weeks lax on the transaction in the same bank

4:54pm:- Kiwanuka also said no loyalty on oil has been collected because production hasn’t commenced. As far as expenditures are concerned, the budget of 2011/2012 authorized the use of some money for financing power at Karuma.
• Nandala says money was moved in July 7, 2011 from URA dollar account but it reached the Accountant General account on July 21, 2011 asking how long it could take to move from one account to another account.

4:49pm:- Speaker asks if all members have got the motion copies as she had instructed before the suspension of the House. She also says the Minister of Finance has a clarification to make before the debate on the motion prayers start

• Maria Kiwanuka takes to the floor- she says she is to clarify the whereabouts of the money collected from the oil proceeds. She says a tax gains tax was assessed and collected by URA amounting to $424,924,900m. The total collection 449m$ was deposited on the URA account in Bank of Uganda.

• She lays on table the URA collection account documents certified by Bank of Uganda, and the Bank of Uganda annual report dully audited by the Auditor General.

4:45pm:- Speaker enters- the House is very full. Outside chairs have been put inside the chambers for some to seat. There is little space remaining between the Serjent and the Speakers’ Mace because of the green chairs which have been put in the usually empty space. The chairs are from the Parliament conference hall.

4:40pm:-Speaker is in and oil debate session can resume
The parliament call bell just went off. MPs already seated waiting for the speaker

3:00pm:- Speaker asks Kutesa to lay the documents he referred to formally on the table. He lays the – letter from Metropolitan police, the letter of AG of Paris.

• Epetait (motion) moving under rule 68 “close of debate.” That Parliament was called in a special session to discuss the oil sector, and appreciating that there was unanimous concurrence in the debate and that a number of MPs have exhaustively debated, I therefore move that the question be put on the motion.

• Speaker: if we agree that the closure to the debate be now, it means we shall go to the motion. She puts the question…
Ayes have it… she directs that clerk makes lists of motion and reconvene after one and a half hours. 4:30pm to debate the motion.

2:54pm:- Karuhanga says another transaction of 500,000 Euros for the same company and the same account.

• Karuhanga says EADLtd on June 21, 2010 the company received 1.5mEuros.

• Karuhanga also says on June 4, 2010 same company received 500,000 Euros.

• Karuhanga says June 10, the company received more money.

• Karuhanga says The whistle blowers have also given us more information of the transaction on the same account and the print out is here. I beg to lay it on table.

• Karuhanga says its very painful that similar names keep coming when there is a corruption querry. I think this is the time we must stand up and get rid of the Members stealing our money.

• Kutesa concludes that its alright to make statements calling people looters, thieves and also important to know that the people of Uganda aren’t fools and will be able to tell between a lie, a falsehood and the truth. How can anybody in their common sense belive that in a matter of 4 months you can get 17million Euros? am calling upon this August House to exercise constraint. And I say there is no need for further investigations because the allegations made by Karuhanga have already been investigated.

• Speaker rules “I know this matter is emotional but let us treat each other with minimum level of courtesy.”

2:48pm:- Karuhanga says first one is a letter of the CEO of Tullow Eiden writing to CEO Bank of Baleta June 3, 2010 “Letter of power of attorney to Brian Glover that he is allowed to make payment in cash to the representative of the East African Development Sam Kahamba Kutesa” (he lays the documents)

• Karuhanga also says there July 16, 2010 to an account to the beneficiary account of East African Development Limited.

• Karuhanga says another transaction of 5meuros was made on the same account two days later.

• Karuhanga says another transaction July 8, 2010 of 3.5mEuros in the names of the same company

2:40pm:- Kutesa says the letter from UK showed that in case such an allegation as true, the police would have investigated them for money laundering. ESG bank is a Greek bank which doesn’t have any client profile of anybody in East Africa.

• Kutesa concludes after reading all the correspondences…

• Karuhanga takes to the floor saying Kutesa is talking about documents and accounts which I dint particularly refer to him. But when we were entering Parliament this morning, an MP brought more evidence of accounts which am sure could be important in case we eventually agree to have the commission of inquiry.

2:36pm:- Alice Alaaso: what I want to remind this House is that this House chaired by now VP as speaker, we exonerated Chogm suspects and later government went back and backstabbed this House and started arresting. If we are to believe the VP, let us get an assurance that they are not making parliament exonerate these suspects and later turn back and make us look untruthful.

• Nandala: How can be believe the VP that there is a report

• Ssekandi: What we debate here and what we say here is always on official Hansard. Am surprised that some times people don’t read the hansard. I want to refer to the issue of Chogm report. What was done is that Parliament didn’t exonerate but we said let the agencies which handle corruption to investigate. Parliament wasn’t a court of law and so its not true that we exonerated the people named in the Chogm report.

• Ssekandi says he has given information from the President. I was reporting what he told me and so the question of bringing here the police report doesn’t arise. As for police inquiry in Malta is that the things were fake. And I said investigations are continuing in Dubai and there is no way we can do without police. Anyways, I was repoting what President told me. Don’t be personal in this debate. You cant intimidate Ssekandi.

2:33pm:- Speaker rules: this information doesn’t take away the need for further investigations.

• Elijah Okupa: It becomes very difficult your Excellency that such truth can come out when the suspects are the ones who clear all travels abroad. The members are here asking why they shouldn’t step aside until the investigations step aside until the investigations are clear. Yesterday when we left here, the officers concerned said when they went to Malta Dubai, they were told they cant certify the documents because of the mafia involved in the oil in Uganda and that when they went to Kenya, they found the company names had been changed- evidence has already been tampered with. Let the minister step aside, otherwise this Parliament shall do what we can do best.

• Okupa says when Museveni got the information during the campaigns, Museveni wanted some arrests of the ministers but because of the tension, he left it at that.

• Okumu Reagan: Individuals were named and offices were named like the one of the Attorney General. I seek from the VP to know because at one time Mbabazi was the AG and we should know if those documents were signed when he was the AG. Somebody else took over from Mbabazi. Can we know what role he played as then AG.

• Ekanya: clarification from VP upon the team sent by government, can you lay on the table the report given by those officers?

• Nandala Mafabi: Hon Onek said the agreement he signed before he left Energy that arbitration shouldn’t be in London but someone took it back and sanctioned it- what does this mean? This means you are trying to muzzle us

2:26pm:- Ndungutse couldn’t do this alone and he worked with DPP on the matter and asked access for them to be able to investigate these allegations and these allegations Ndungutse wrote to a Mr Simpson (from British Metropolitan police) when Mr Simpson got the letter, he wrote back to Ndungutse on the Bank alleged to Kutesa’s.

• Vice president Ssekandi stands to speak: “Madam Speaker and Hon Members, am here to give some information on the matter that is being debated in this House. I must thank Members on the way you have made your contribution you seem to be patriotic and please continue. The information I want to give is that last year the president got some of the documents that were tabled here yesterday by Karuhanga and after some inquires Museveni involved the IGP in the inquiries who in turn thought the help of DPP because the allegations couldn’t be investigated without using foreign government. The Uganda police got information from the Malta police that the documents were fake. A contact between the Uganda police and Malta continues.

• Ssekandi says the DPP asked the Malta police to find our the named account from the bank but the response was that the accounts don’t exist. President is of the view that we let investigations to continue on the matter.

• Point of procedure (Barnabas Tinkasimire) having heard the information from VP and given the fact that one of the suspects is Foreign Affairs minister who facilities such international travels, and another person is Internal Affairs minister who controls and dispatches police to go and investigate. Do we expect to have credible information coming here purportedly to say what was presented by Karuhanga is a forgery. And how can we verify that theirs is not a forgery.

2:19pm:- Kutesa says people should fight corruption with facts lest if we use incorrect method of fighting corruption, we ourselves will be entrenching corruption instead of fighting. I have been in this House for many years of my life and I think we should give the House the dignity it deserves and get to the bottom to the matter.

• Kutesa says yesterday there was much constructive debates made and allegations made against persons and I was one of them. Karuhanga said he was a whistle blower and that he was prepared to die but must tell the truth.

• Kutesa pleads that he be allowed to talk. He repeats that Karuhanga was a whistle blower and indeed as a whistle blower he made allegations. That Karuhanga said Tullow paid me a bribe of a staggering 17million Euros. I have never seen anybody with such money and am aware many of us haven’t seen it.

• Kutesa says people should think back on what service he could have offered to deserve the 17m Euros. He says on the subject matter of Tullow and Sam Kutesa and Onek isnt new. That it has been here for more than a year. Karuhanga isn't the first whistle blower on the matter. He says the first whistle blower on the matter was Andrew Mwenda.

• Kutesa says Mwenda said documents he received were saying Kutesa received a bribe of 16.5m Euros. Mwenda reported the matter to police and that Onek has received from Tullow 6.5mEuros. an investigation was undertaken by Commission of police by Ndungutse at police and he tried to find out the veracity of these documents and the allegations.

2:11pm:- Speaker rules that he speaks and contributes to the motion.

• Kutesa says he welcomes the motion because it is healthy to debate public matters. The oil and gas industry is a public matter and ist therefore in the powers of parliament to debate it and I would like to associate myself with the debate.

• He says the motion has brought out good points like employing Ugandans and taxes- there were also allegations that some individuals were fleecing the country by dealing with companies and taking money. I think it is good to have a vibrant Parliament which keeps government accountable and important to have free debate. It is important to bring individuals accountable but do it factually and carefully.

• Kutesa says people should fight corruption with facts lest if we use incorrect method of fighting corruption, we ourselves will be entrenching corruption instead of fighting. I have been in this House for many years of my life and I think we should give the House the dignity it deserves and get to the bottom to the matter.

• Kutesa says people should think back on what service he could have offered to deserve the 17m Euros. He says on the subject matter of Tullow and Sam Kutesa and Onek isnt new. That it has been here for more than a year. Karuhanga isnt the first whistle blower on the matter. He says the first whistle blower on the matter was Andrew Mwenda.

2:07pm:- Speaker rules that he speaks and contributes to the motion.

2:00pm:- Lulume Bayiga stands to the floor asking that whoever makes submissions mentions his side- whether he supports the motion or is against the motion. The accused should defend themselves before the commission and not the Floor. They should wait for the Judge to summon them before the commission.

• Sam Kutesa says it is common practice that if someone is accused and has the capacity to defend self before the same tribunal where he was accused is common practice. “I beg that I be given the right to defend myself because am a Member of Parliament, I can defend myself and I can contribute to the motion as an MP.”

• Kutesa says he doesn’t see how he can be ruled out of speaking on the motion.

1:59pm:- Speaker rules: please tell us in what capacity you are speaking so that we can take a decision.

• Mbabazi says; “well, I really had many clarifications to make because I gave way to all of you.” Nambooze asked in what capacity I was speaking. I am speaking as Mbabazi because the allegations were made on the name Mbabazi.

• He says he was speaking as Mbabazi and will return to speak as leader of government business.

1:57pm:- Ssekikubo says when the matters were raised, am saddened to know that the name of the President is being brought in. under what circumstances did Tullow write to the President and the letter ended up in the hands of the accused Prime Minister?

• Speaker rules; “I have not had any correspondence with Tullow last night until when I was seated in this chair. I haven’t even read the letter but sent to the clerk to study and action.”

• Mbabazi defies speaker’s calls for the motion and concludes his presentation.

• Hussein Kyanjo moves under rule 66 “that the member holding the floor no longer be heard so that we don’t jeopardize our debate.” MPs shout ayes ayes.

1:55pm:- Nsereko says Mbabazi is one of the accused and presents information from the co-accused (Tullow). They should wait for their time and give that information on oath when the commission takes shape. He says it would be prudent for PM to know that the course to take is to support the motion and wait for the commission of inquiry and he waits for justice to take its course.

• Ssekikubo stands for clarification: He says his point is a procedure on how communication is received and channeled to Speakers’ chambers. He says we left the chambers at a quarter to 9pm and Tullow has already received the communication I don’t know whether from you, and before you read the communication, the suspect here (Mbabazi) already has made copies and laying them on the table. Are we moving on the right track? This is the kind of workings that by the time we understand it, we too we shall be encircled. Is it procedurally right that you receive communication when there is a session? What is the emergence?

1:47pm:- Nsereko Muhamad also point of clarification. He says the House is at crossroads. History has it that in 1988 IBEACo came with tokens and later Uganda was colonized. Today we hear that Tullow is intimidating us MPs that they shall sue. We are not here to be intimidated by Tullow. This justifies the issue in our motion that a commission be instituted as those implicated step aside….

• Gerald Karuhanga on point of information says the document he referred to yesterday was from American Embassy and today the PM has information from Tullow. If the American Embassy feels they have a problem with the document- they should come here and say that not Tullow.

1:45pm:- Geoffrey Ekanya takes to the floor: He says Mbabazi can bring all documentary on how he fronted ENI how he tried to involve the NRM caucus to save him and how Museveni sent a team to London.

• Elijah Okupa stands on clarification saying he has been patiently waiting on his answer who Kabucu is because what we know Kabucu is a former ESO operative when Mbabazi was boss and he later went to Heritage. And he should tell that you sent people to Libya to train in oil and after a few days Gadaffi sent them back because they didn’t have the clearance of the president of Uganda.

• Betty Nambooze takes to the floor: Who is the Mbabazi now? Is it the Mbabazi who is the Prime Minister or? I also want to know if he is speaking in support of the motion or in support of the motion.

1:40pm:- Mbabazi reads the Tullow letter: we are in the process of making investigations on the floor of the House and that Tullow rejects all those allegations on the name of Tullow and if such are made outside PARLIAMENT, Tullow will take up legal action. The letter he says is written by Aiden the CEO of Tullow.

• Okt-Ogong takes to the floor; Tullow is accused and is a suspect. How do we believe a letter written by the suspect? If am accused of anything, would you believe my information? We cant rely on such a letter.

• Speaker rules: Let us receive the letters and our committee will examine the authenticity.

• Amongi Betty stands on point of procedure. She says the letter being read is purportedly written to you today and a letter written to you has landed in the hands of the PM and who is a suspect. I want to know how a letter written to you has finally landed into PM’s hands. The evidence yesterday indicated connivance between the ministers and Tullow. I want to go under Rule 80 (1) “a member shall not take part in the discussion ion any matter in which he has peculiarly interests” until we clear Mbabazi, he can’t continue discussing about Tullow. And let us know if he is a defense lawyer for Tullow.

• Speaker ruled: “ As I was seated here, a letter arrived and I wrote to my clerk to study and advise. I don’t know how it reached his hands.

• Mbabazi says the letter is copied to all ministers

1:32pm:- Mbabazi also reads Tullow letter to Museveni which quoted wikileaks allegations about him and Onek and that the Tullow boss was denying such leaks to the US embassy.

• Ken Lukyamuzi stands on the point of order if its proper for a PM to refute the points of clarification and information.

• Speaker rules that maybe he wanted to first finish some point before accepting the points - I hope he will allow.

• Mbabazi says he has also received a letter from Tullow addressed to Speaker Rebecca Kadaga October 11, 2011.

• Alice Alaaso stands on point of clarification on the Tullow letter to mention signature and not Tullow as a company.

• Speaker rules that PM should state author and date so that Hansard can be clear.

1:29pm:- Mbabazi says the papers that were laid before the house by Gerald Karuhanga was a case that has been in the public domain for the last almost 2 years. He says the case arose out of wiki leaks reports which all have seen. In that report by Wikileaks that the American embassy wrote about me that Heritage had bribed me. (He lays wiki leaks report). He says when the allegation came up, he first heard it from Observer newspaper in London and he answered to them; “The allegations is absolutely not true. I have never received anything from Heritage and or ENI. However there was a report which didn’t mention anyone but talked about corruption which was picked by the Red pepper.” Mbabazi says what surprised him that the embassy thinks the

• Point of procedure (Dr Epetait Francis)- since the prime minister started submitting we have gone more than 10 minutes and in the prayers of the motion, we want a commission of inquiry. I don’t know if we are turning ourselves into the commission of inquiry, because members should first debate and he will have enough time before the commission.

• Speaker rules: “Since the allegations were made about the members of this House, let us give them time for defence before the commission of inquiry”

1:20pm:- Mbabazi says it appears to him that incase the name of Nina Mbabazi and what they called Rukaikire Junior who is my son-in-law. This shows that she has no stake in that company.

• Nandala Mafabi moves on point of clarification- that he got the information from the registrar and should be certified by the registrar.

• Issa Kikungwe also asks what Prime Minister knows about Kabucu?

• Alice Alaaso seeks clarification whether he is aware of the provisions in the Petroleum Exploration Act that require those companies to provide audited accounts and whether he has looked at the accounts of Tullow and if they don’t name Nina Mbabazi.

• Mbabazi says he has nothing to hide and that in case there is more information, there is more time to clarify. He says that even if Nina was involved Tullow in business- what crime is that? My children don’t ask me for permission to do business and in fact I don’t get to know what they are doing.

1:17pm:- Mbabazi says Ssekikubo mentioned that the owners of the company parking machines belonged to Nina Mbabazi and Mathew Rukakaire. “I have a daughter called Nina Mbabazi and she is married to a one Rukikaire and am not sure if that is the family they meant.” He says he asked Ssekikubo for that info and he investigated and found that there is a company called Mineral services Ltd, certificate of registration July 3, 1997 (he lays on table)

• Mbabazi says the company’s articles and memorandum shows owners are Geoffrey Roberts (300 shares) Patrick Kimbaleba (300 shares) Edward Kabucu (300 shares) and they are all signed. (he lays the document)

• Mbabazi says the particulars of directors of the company also show Mr Kabucu Edward and Patrick Kimbaleba. He says this is the annual returns of the company dated September 16, 2011 which shows the shareholders as Edward Kabucu and Patrick Kimbaleba (lays on table)

1:10pm:- Speaker rules that she shouldn’t be thrown into any caucus because she doesn’t belong to any caucus- she says “let us address the issues which arose yesterday.”
Mbabazi says anyone who wishes him out of NRM is wasting his time

• Mbabazi says the allegations made to his name should be investigated so that people speak with facts

1:09pm:- Amama Mbabazi takes to the floor to clear the allegations made on his name yesterday on the start of the debate. He says he wants to make 2 points.

• Amama says, “Me as a leader of the movement and a leader of the government business am fully with you on the methods of working in open and transparency” he says that is the hall mark of the NRM for all this time.

• Hussein Kyanjo takes to point of order: Since yesterday every member here present knows for a fact that we came for the important debate as Ugandans to use similar tools and understanding. Secondly there was a rumour that the caucus had time to sit. Is Prime Minister in order to bring the ideas of NRM as if we are in the caucus? If he wants to bring ideas of the caucus, let him go back to the caucus.

1:06 pm:- Kasirivu says even the Bunyoro kingdom isn’t being consulted on oil matters yet the kingdom has the 1965 agreement section 65 “in the event of a mineral loyalty, a substantial part shall be paid to the kingdom.” He says the kingdom isn’t being consulted and he wonders if government waits for people to go to court over such issues.

• Kasirivu says in the 6th Parliament Uganda was almost getting into a bigger problem over the Karuma project. He says the agreement had a phrase that government was to guarantee the water levels- how do you guarantee such levels?

• Kasirivu says when the lawyers who drafted it were asked on how to guarantee water levels- none of them could answer. That is why 6th parliament refused to have the agreement signed.

• Kasirivu says government should listen to the people of Uganda that we need good laws and good agreements so that everybody enjoys and lives in harmony and when we meet we remind ourselves of the good agreements we made..but to think that afew people matter and others don’t matter even in the face of God, its not proper.

01:02pm:- Kasirivu Atwooki takes to the floor and says he thanks the movers of the motion and that Parliament also be thanked for the good debate. He says everybody in government should be very proud of this parliament that such a debate is going on.

• Kasirivu says allegations are normal and will continue being made but most important is to make sure there are mechanisms to find out the truth.

• Kasirivu says even the oil companies must be proud of the debate that they will operate in an environment which is very transparent because anybody who wants to have things in the dark, it is unfortunate.

• Kasirivu says the matters of environment aren’t being brought out very well because most areas will have environmental degradation. He says the money is being eaten in Kampala and oversees but the community around will suffer a lot and that is what they call curse.

• Jalia Bintu takes to the floor for information. She says the issues of environmental managements are still a problem. She says when she visited with the committee they found out that the wastes were left to evaporate and the humans were left to inhale such stuff which are hazardous.

• Bintu says with the heavy rains they are being washed away and in the next 20 years we could have cancers from those elements- she says government should handle that issue as soon as possible.

• Kasirivu says when government was going to privatize Kinyara he had his reservations which were ignored by the government.

12:54pm:- Mukitale says the speaker allowed them to have a select committee on land grabbing in the country but some forces where behind and powerful and blocked the report to be debated on the floor. He says the way the Ninth Parliament has started can turn the oil curse into a blessing. He says some of them have been lone voices because of oil. He says during elections he was indicted by police and he was in hiding because of talking about oil in Bulisa.

• Mukitale says Ndugu Rugunda and his grandchildren have no cross-generational curse and should enjoy their lives. He says government is rewarding inefficiency instead of fighting for the locals, but promote investors who are a liability.

• Mukitale says he has discovered that under the guise of privatization and liberalization- we have a problem and are under the ransom of criminals because there are dealers and commission agents who are senior government officials and security who don’t speak for the country but for the investors.

• Mukitale says such people are so concerned on Tullow loosing money that for Ugandans and what they will get.

• Parliament should give an ultimatum to such people and they should step aside. He says he sympathizes with the son of Kaguta. Why let Parliament get into trouble censuring you instead of stepping aside?

• Hussein Kyanjo stands to seek clarification on the individuals who have been known to be part of those deals. Kyanjo seeks the names of the security officers who are invo0lved in disturbing the albertine region. He says it would give the debate a more informed choice and Parliament would know what to do with them.

• Mukitale says he has already mentioned them and says the list is very long and that he already put those names in the report which is detailed. He says he will need a whole session to read it.

• Mukitale says he gives a way forward as a chairman National economy. He proposes that all agreements be reviewed and 51% shares be to government.

• Mukitales says the refinery should be government owned. He also says no body from Bullisa has been trained to work in the oil industry. He also requests that government gives timelines, a road map on when we shall get the laws and the institutions.

12:46pm:- Mukitale says he supports the inquiry because he has always wanted an investigation into the land ownership because there are new land owners now like there weren’t a community before. He says he didn’t get any response from anywhere even after tabling a letter before Parliament of conspiracies.

• Mukitale thanks Museveni for sending Tinyefuza to evict those individuals. He says people in the industry should tell us if Ugandans have more than 20 % in the oil stake.

• Mukitale said he has always wanted to look at the law and the recovery costs and benefits to the Ugandans. He says the only way to benefit is when we have Ugandans working in the oil mines.

• Gilbert Oulanyah stands for information that the same problem in Buliisa and Hoima and what is going on in Amuru. He says government is emphasizing that the land near the oil should be given to Madhavni and they have refused any other land—because Madhavi wants strictly that land.

12:42pm:- Wadri says as he left Arua yesterday all people in Arua said the Ninth parliament is doing great – he says Uganda has become number 2 to Nigeria for being crafty.
• Speaker says the children in the gallery come from Kigolobya in Hoima and that they are interested in the loyalties of the oil proceeds.

• Mukitale Birahwa takes to the floor saying God is good all the time and all the time God is good. He says God has blest this nation with oil.

• Mukitale says the children who have been introduced in the gallery have their parents land taken by Major Herbert Muramagi who wants to acquire some land near the oil.

12:38pm:- Wadri says all Ugandans have shares in the country and must own all together. He says all people who have been mentioned like in Public service, when suspected, you are relieved of your duties until investigations end like in KENYA when Ruto was implicated, and he stepped aside for the sake of investigations.

• Wadri mentions Kutesa, Mbabazi, Onek, Justice Billy Kainamura (now Judge), Keith Muhakanizi and others to step aside and be investigated.

12:36pm:- Wadri says religious leaders were even called to pray for the oil discovery, a few people kept the oil business close to their chest as if playing cards where the master card should be held close to the chest.

• Wadri says he had a lot of trust in Onek when he had asked that MPs be patriotic- but has since lost it. He says in his culture northerners are not known for theft- but for fighters. He mentioned Obote who ruled for 2 terms, he didn’t leave any trail of stolen property. Gen Tito Lutwa president for 6 months didn’t acquire any properties for that time, and therefore Onek , if its true and discovered that you partook on that money you will be a disgrace to us northern.

• Wadri says he leaves others to discipline their own children but for Onek the northern and Wadri will discipline him personally.

12:34pm:- Kagwera says all the people mentioned should step aside- he says the word resign is harsh. When they are proved innocent, they will return and history will absolve them otherwise they will interfere with the investigations and if guilty the law should take its course.

• Wadri Kassiano takes to the floor that he has been in the House for 11 years and in all the 3 Parliaments, I pay salutation to the Ninth parliament for their good start.

• Wadri says when he saw the list for signatures for this noble cause, he knew the Parliament was moving the best direction. He says when a person is born in the community, the whole community gets involved at the initiation stages and in a similar way when we wake up one day and found we had oil, we humbled ourselves that we had reached the other stage and waited to partake and get information on what is happening to the oil.

12:31pm:- Stephen Kagwera takes to the floor and salutes Hon Onek because he has moved the right way contrary to the way Kutesa moved. Kagwera says Kutesa should have said he doesn’t own the account as alleged but he didn’t.

• Kagwera says its unfortunate that a few individuals have decided to take oil as if its their personal. He says research has been done and what needs to be done now is to move forward.

• Kagwera says he is worried that some MPs may develop syndromes where hostages are taken by their captures. As we talk now some members are calculating numbers but Mps should move as one- not to abuse the trust Ugandans have put in us.

12:26pm:- Onek says MPs should follow sequence of events so that they don’t miss the events. He says he had many troubles with technical people in Energy ministry over oil agreements. He explains that when he asked cabinet to allow ENI, he was accussed to taking bribes and all those allegations appear in wikileaks. Onek says he has been on record saying that these companies tried not to pay tax but he insisted.

• Onek says he signed an MoU that Ugandan shouldn’t be taken to London for arbitration- how things changed when he left the ministry is what he had failed to understand.

• Onek says he is thoroughly hurt by the lies and if true, then he deserves all the punishment in this world. There is nothing being a minister to fight for. He says he will table documents that Uganda shouldn’t go to court which was later changed.

12:22pm:- Speaker introduces district counselors from Igara West in the gallery.

• Hillary Onek takes to the floor that he had taken days to rest and he heard from Lamwo about misinformation and lies about him. He says he strongly support the investigation because it will clear the air on what has happened. He says that is what he will consult with the appointing authority (Museveni) before he steps aside.

• Onek asks the MPs to be cool headed and says the allegations about him were brought last year August- he says someone called him about the bank transactions and he says he doesn’t have an account in Dubai because all his accounts are in Uganda. He says all his business’ are in the country.

• Hussein Kyanjo stands on point of procedure saying Onek looks like he is defending himself yet the rules provide that a member can only write an explanation.

• Speaker rules that its important that parliament takes Onek’s side of the story before continuing with the debate.

• Onek says he will write a personal document but now must table some documents on the table- he went to police August 16, 2010 made a statement and directed the director of CID and find out who is trying to blackmail me, and find out if that account really exists .

• Onek says even the Tullow boss Brian Glover was also investigated by police and he gave a statement- Onek also tables phone print outs of the caller and him over the accounts ‘blackmail.’

12:13pm:- Ruhunda says he has a summary of all PSAs and finds that Europeans have partnered with Ugandan elites to hoodwink the country.

• Ignatius Besisira stands on point of information that in Bunyoro the Europeans took their land and today they are taking our oil he says he is about to regret why he was born in Bunyoro because while he lacks land there, he is about to have the oil curse and its very painful.

• Ruhunda returns but Epetait Francis moves on order that prime Minister isn’t in order to make phone calls when debate is going on.

• Speaker rules that its a breach of rules of parliament to use telephones in the chamber.

12:10pm:- Hatwib Katoto: The ministers mentioned should voluntarily or be forced to resign as the commission investigates lest they compromise the investigations. We shall not achieve what we want to achieve if they remain in the seats of executive when they are being investigated.

• Biraro appeals to Museveni to stay clear in this matter and stay away. Museveni shouldn’t influence peddle and interfere at all.

• Alex Ruhunda: Ugandans out there are very anxious and looking at all of us and bank on us. We have talked about corruption for a long time and as NRM members who would want to see the party move on for more 70 years to come, we feel terribly cheated by those supposed to be our mentors in the party. Our moral ability to engage is facing a lot of challenges.

• Ruhunda says its painful for him to stand and debate on issues where senior people are being implicated. We must restore dignity and can only do that when you have the title of honourable until that point where you can say ‘let me resign, enough is enough.’

• Ruhunda says colleagues in the NRM party must know how the President feels with such people. The last time he wanted to raise issues of fake agreements made by the Attorney general that sell the country.

12:05pm:- Sebuliba says Nigerians fought for the oil because of such elements and if Uganda isn’t careful, we could end up like Nigeria. He says if the ministers mentioned should support the commission of inquiry or they step aside for investigations or we use rule 118 and eliminate them from here.

• Sebuliba says he is perturbed because when you look at the agreements talked about, where production is 5,000 per day, we share 50-50 and where the production is higher than 20,000, Uganda gets 65, what will refuse the companies to get 200,000 per day and we get 50-50 in order to earn more than we do? We need an oil regime to supervise oil sector.

• Kadaga says she will also give time to those host oil in their areas.

• Ephraim Biraaro takes to the floor and congratulates all ministers who haven’t been mentioned so far. If they still like Uganda and their president- let them step aside earlier in time so that they help us investigate. We know they know more than we know into this. That will save our time, our resources and embarrassment on everybody’s case.

• Biraro says in Buhweju there is Gold but he is scared of such elements of investments, “We may get a double curse.”

12:01am:- Sebuliba Mutumba also to support the motion. He says no wonder the speaker is called Rebecca because it has more intonations. She could be the first lady to head this country (laughters).

• Sebuliba says if we are not careful as we debate, we may degenerate into a civil war because like in Nigeria when they discovered oil, everything was affected. Ssekikubo yesterday told us that the owners of the land and neighboring the oil fields aren’t benefiting because even chicken eaten there is got from Kenya.

• Sebuliba says Nigerians fought for the oil because of such elements and if Uganda isn’t careful, we could end up as Nigeria. He says if the ministers mentioned should support the commission of inquiry or they step aside for investigations of we use rule 118 and eliminate them from here.

11:59pm:- Dombo said until recently the president has assured the people of Uganda that oil will never be a curse and we belived him. But that if information that is coming now shows the contrary, I support the motion.

• Dombo also talks about media reports that Museveni has always written to ministers of energy that they don’t conclude such oil agreements without further study. The president is mortal and can fall or collapse and never to wake up. This means the officials will mess all the business. We need we need an oil authority to avoid using state officials.

• Let us put a judicial commission to investigate the Ministers so that even the people of Uganda understand what is going on.

• If you went to PAC, you would shed tears that a whole public officer can eat a consignment of bicycles and this parliament continues to give money to such an officer is regrettable.

11:55am:- Dombo said while he chaired the Natural Resources committee, his committee travelled in Norway and found that they had decided to use a tax regime. In Norway when you are given a block to explore, the costs are yours and whatever you get, 70 % is for the firm and 30 % for the government.

11:52am:- Item Number 3: DEBATE continues. Speaker chooses those to speak and says she will write down their names to avoid double speaking.

• Emanuel Dombo takes to the floor: he says today in the House there is Gen Elly Tumwiine who fired the first bullet in the NRA struggle. Tumwiine is also the chairperson of the Anti-corruption coalition in parliament and yesterday he made a standing ovation about a MP who made a contribution.

• Dombo said he didn’t sign the motion because the idea was about agreements but because of yesterday’s debate, he regretted by he hadn’t signed because the matters were more demanding.

11:50am:- Communication from the chair: Kadaga welcomes the MPs, says there was a delay because she tried to condense work which had been set for today. She introduces Moses Kigongo NRM Vice chairman in the gallery, Awori, Okello-okello and Robert Kitaliko (veteran politican) Stephen Bamwanga, and Ms Byenkya Nyakaisiki. She welcomes them. She also welcomes officials from the Swedish Embassy in Kampala.

11:45am:- Kadaga has entered the House

Hillary Onek, Minister of Internal Affairs and former Energy Minister today shows up in the House. He was absent yesterday when allegations were made about him. In the corridor he refuses to talk to the media, only saying “this is diversionary.”

11:41am:- Theodore Ssekikubo (the motion mover), his seconders Wilfred Niwagaba, Abdu Katuntu, Denis Obua already in the House. Gerald Karuhanga yet to show up. “I called him in the morning and he is okay but he hasn’t shown up yet,” Niwagaba says.

11:35am:- A lot of suspense looms Parliament chamber, corridors and lobby: Kadaga yet to leave her office. Mps are speculating that she could be in meetings. Not clear with whom.

11:19 am:- The Parliament call bell just stopped- corridors full of Legislators and Speaker Rebecca Kadaga yet to enter the House. Parliament never had such numbers of MPs at the same time.

Second day of the Oil debate a few minutes a way. Some former MPs are in the gallery ‘for entertainment’ they say- Aggrey Awori, the former ICT minister and Okello-Okello, former MP Chwa county are in the gallery.

LIVE UPDATES DAY 2: Oil Debate in Parliament

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