LIVE UPDATES DAY 3: Oil Debate- President Museveni speaks out

President Museveni talking to the press.

7:09pm:- Kabagambe says the recent ranking of 112 countries in terms of PSAs. We looked at the worst case and the worst case. Uganda has 76 points and Ghana has 58points.

M7 says were all members of the national economy given the documents- all of them or some of them? Muloni says all members were given copies. She says June 29, 2010 we laid on table of Parliament all PSAs and its recorded in the hansard and I recall when we had a press briefing at the media center, I had to share that information.

Muloni says its not true government has kept these documents secret. Parliament has these documents and the speaker has given the guidelines of accessing them because of the confidentiality clauses in them.

M7 says tax matters shall be handled in Uganda and other issues can be settled outside. When I was demanding the tax from Tullow when they were refusing to pay, I made this clear. Now when the matter came up, I also asked the same question why they want to go to London when the agreements say tax shall be handled in Uganda?

M7 says he was advised by very senior lawyers who said its better we go. This is like a war plan and you don’t reveal your war in public.

6:56pm:- Micheal Baleke asks how much of the oil is actually Uganda’s?

M7 says oil exploration has got three levels what they call aeromagnetic survey, the sedimological study. He says the 2 levels were done by our people the Ps Kalisa and his team.

M7 says what remains are the 3rd one which is to dig and confirm what we have in the ground that is when we invited companies to come. So that is how we ended up this formula of PSAs where you say okay I came with oil here use your money and find the oil if you find, we shall share and if you don’t, that is your problem.

Kabagambe says Uganda takes 36.5% and the companies take 63.5%.

M7 says this is the first year because the company spends a lot of money to dig the well. We say when you have finished recovering your money in the drilling.
• M7 says when he finishes recovering his money, the formula changes and we start getting 73%. When we became sure there is oil, we got to 80.5%.

• M7 says initially when the companies are still recovering the money they used, we get less. This sharing doesn’t include taxes, Kabagambe says it includes taxes and loyalties and so on.

6:51pm:- M7 says the wikileaks and the Americans with their confusion, he says he saw something about his wife. That I gave her a ministerial job so that she fails because she was becoming more popular than me. If the American government has got such ambassadors- then its rubbish.

M7 says in fact Janet volunteered to go to Karamoja. Says here you have got such an ambassador who has no work to do, that I sent my wife to karamoja to fail because she had become more popular that myself .

M7 says the Tullow Idiot who leaked information in Wikileaks about ENI, that they gave me money for what? M7 can’t be given money for nothing.

M7 says its despicable that Gen Yoweri Museveni, Ssabalwani to get money from Mzungu or anybody is despicable. Anyways, am actually the one who stopped the ENI- am the one who guided the ministry of work with the Chinese.

M7 says that Wikileaks is a very big joke.

M7 says some of the documents which were found in parliament yesterday about Kutesa and maybe Onek are forgeries- this one I have been wanting to tell you. They are forgeries because I was the first to receive the documents in August or September. I tried to get investigators and they couldn’t go farm, then I decided to get in the IGP and I asked him to get in touch with the police in MALTA, Dubai and UK. They have concluded their investigations in London and their investigations in MALTA, these documents are a forgery and I have that evidence.

M7 says we haven’t concluded the investigations in Dubai but since they said the money was from Malta to Dubai and in malta they are forgeries, it means even the Dubai will be forgery.

M7 says now what needs to be investigated is that we investigate who originated these documents.

6:44pm:- M7 says when he finally finds the truth, he will see how to handle. That when truth is found that there is real corruption inside there, he will handle. He says we wait because God is there. the truth will come out

Tabu Butagira asks why M7 doesn’t act on the suspected corruption elements in his senior cabinet like Amama Mbabazi. Tabu reads extract from Wiki leaks…

M7 says it is absolute rubbish. He says that person who brough that information is an idiot and to confirm that he is an idiot, ENI never got anything in Uganda, so if they paid me, then I took their money for nothing.

M7 asks what people are saying about the Prime Minister?

Tabu says when there is any matter concerning Mbabazi, you are difficult to take action yet in the health PS Nanoono.

M7 says there is no difficulty in handling Mbabazi but and I can’t handle such over people for nothing. Mbabazi was mentioned for once in Temangalo, I don’t remember the details but when I carried out some investigations, I was convinced that he wasn’t a thief although he could have had some bad deals. You cant interdict somebody just because people make malicious allegations about him.

6:32pm:- M7 asks where such rumors come from. He says he heard that the money spent 2 weeks on the way as if it was in Rwakitura. He says Kagina has done well and because he is a Mulokole.

M7 says Kabagambe should explain why the public isn’t aware of the inside information on the oil sector. Kabagambe says journalists have been given all the information they need./ he says its not true that whatever is in the oil business is classified.

Kabagambe says what is classified is the commercial aspect of the agreement and when put in the public domain, it paralyses the business

Kabagambe says the information you get when in operations is classified like well data. He says when you drill a well, you measure the well. He says when he says we have 200,000 barrels of oil that is information but can’t reveal more than that.

M7 says that incase he sells his cows to somebody in Kampala and maybe Shs1m per cow and we have an agreement. It means that agreement of the price which he paid me is confidential- why? Because I think the logic here would be supposing someone wanted to give me Shs1.2m for my cow- if I have already put it on the internet, then it undermines my ability to have one give me Shs1.2m. I think that is what he is talking about. That is the issue that when you agree with somebody, since people come at different times.

M7 is asked if his ministers whom Parliament asked to stand aside- he says he hasn’t studied the Parliament resolutions, but when he does study it, he will let us know.

M7 says Ugandans should avoid making accountability errors because after the war, some institutions were put there to fight for transparency and accountability. He says when he gets home tonight; he will read through Parliament resolution.

He says he doesn’t encourage war. He says the Bukenya issue and fights will be handled and he will understand them soon. M7 says he will understand who uses institutions of corruption to fight wars, and who uses courts to fight wars.

6:21pm:- M7 says he will invite his Mps because he knows his work and he knows how to defend the interest of Uganda and he knows how to defend the interest of Uganda and has never disappointed. He says he will call his MPs and see what is good for Uganda.

M7 says Uganda will not loose because of any confusion. If I had discussed with my members, I would have what to say but I hadn’t but I heard what they did yet they are under my care.

M7 says he can’t start being part of the confusion of promising I will o that, I will do that. He says the members are here and not in London and even if they were in London, he would fly to find them. He says Uganda will not lose on account of anybody- this one I can guarantee you.

M7 says Ugandan will not loose and can’t loose under his leadership.

Kagina Allen explains that she collected $444m in tax and $15.4m stamp duty. This money was transferred to the consolidated account on July 21, 2011 at the real exchange rate and its equivalent to Shs1.1trillion.

M7 says he had a rumor that the money had to spend some 2 weeks on the way. What was the journey of the money?

Kagina says it was deposited in April on the URA account and then was transferred. She says it was an immediate transfer.

M7 asks where such rumors come from. He says he heard that the money spent 2 weeks on the way as if it was in Rwakitura. He says Kagina has done well and because he is a Mulokole.

6:16pm:- M7 is asked about the resignations of the Ministers indicted by IGG over Chogm. M7 says he has been busy and hasn’t studied the Parliament decisions over ministers. He said he will study it.

M7 says Parliament decision is theirs- but what we want is the truth. M7 says the 3 ministers aren’t in the oil issues but the anti-corruption court. He says he will have to find out because Uganda isn’t ending today.

M7 says he brought a political party which has been winning elections for the last 25 years. He says he hears some of his members were involved in making such resolutions in parliament. They hadn’t discussed it with me. Am the chairman of the NRM and the president of Uganda and the head of the executive.

6:11pm:-Irene Muloni says ERA is the regulator in the electricity industry and regulates all the companies from generation to Umeme. She says incase of regulation they must have people with skills to monitor the industry they are regulating.

Muloni says such an industry we need mechanical, civil and electrical engineers, accountants etc because of the nature of the work. She says it depends on the kind of technical skill arises, is when they recruit.

Muloni says the new laws to manage the oil effectively and also value addition. She says there are 3 laws still in the draft stage which she will fast track. She says they are still in the parliamentary council.

Muloni is asked why ERA has a mechanical engineer doing work of a hydrologist.

Kabagambe says when recruiting in the oil and gas sector, our mission is to re-train them because sometimes we can’t get the discipline we want.

Muloni says because the regulator has the mandate of regulating the sector, it depends on the type of assignment.

M7 says even him when he wants to know something about the level of the lake, he rings the minister of water but not electricity people. He says if you want to know anything about the water, you ask the water people.

Kabagambe says there are 2 oil wells which are being tested now. I has so far shown 200,000 barrels and 2 is Kigololo3 in Bullisa which has shown 500,000 barrels.

Kabagambe says a plant like Namanve consumes 1500 barrels a day. He also says the exporting of crude isn’t a total export but a few samples are taken out to test.

Kabagambe says Uganda is paying for the service of exporting the crude for testing- he says someone was asking how much we pay as a country.

M7 says when he bring blood sample from his cows in Rwakitura, he is the one who pays and not the testers to pay him because he is the one concerned.

M7 asks if we don’t have the laboratory here but Kabagambe says no. M7 says its us to pay for that service.

5:57pm:-M7 says there is some mentality he doesn’t understand. He says supposing we are producing barrels, we can get some money for our GDP but we already have more from tourim.

M7 says if it wasn’t because of the walk-to-work the tourism would have already gone up. But he sees the sector of tourism will improve.

M7 says when he sees the craze in the oil, everyone wants to be in oil. He says he found the oil but has been on those wells only once. Yet he sees everyone concerned. That is why I said that although I had delegated powers to the ministers on oil, I took back all my powers. That was like 3 years ago. I said without my written authority, no transaction in oil.

M7 says we shall have to handle oil according to how other countries handle it- best practices in the world.

Kabagambe reports that there has been a debate about the licensees that were granted. He says a license is granted with a maximum period of 8 years- you start with 4 years and after one may re-apply for an additional 2 years and then another 2 years.

Kabagambe says however if in a discovery area the company has found some new discovery- you are given more time to make your discovery which period is called a discovery. He says the minister has the powers to give such consent.

Kabagambe says the licensee doesn’t expire as long as there is a discovery. He says it all depends on how the appraisal was.

Kabagambe says recruitment is done using the public service commission and because there is competition, they take through the public service commission after advertising.

5:53pm:-M7 asks him if there is any other confusion he can remember.

M7 says he rejected the stabilization clause but if it has come back, then we shall negotiate. He says the other day he saw some amendments but he rejected because he is the one who decided most of the things which are controversial unless someone smuggles them into such agreements.

M7 says in handling most of the matters, he has to compare by the other countries in the world how things are being done there. he says his formula will be how do other countries handle this- to compare otherwise if you make very difficult decisions for your daughter, she may stay on the shelf. He says you can't tell the husband to marry your daughter and she stays home. Men will say that woman has become impossible. So you must look at how other parents’ handle giving away their daughters.

M7 asks for anything else which has been confusion.

M7 is asked a question that since he doesn’t agree with some clauses- the agreements are already signed…

M7 says it can’t be signed. He says these people here wrote to me because they had got some confusion in the tax. I wrote a directive that time. (refers to article 99 constitution) “all Executive power belongs to the President..”

M7 says Ministers who do whatever they do, do it because he has asked them, but on the issues of oil, I say aaaa, because the issues of oil when you let the money come, every one wants.

M7 says he doesn’t remember we have oil because he is a cattle keeper but oil is something he has to think about. He only thinks about his cows and his crops.

5:45pm:- Kabagambe says it required some different technology and hence more money used to drill it. He says the conditions down the well were very difficult. Kabagambe says when discussing with the PS of Kenya about the offshore drills in Mombasa, he realized that the $39m spent on Ngasa wasn’t that much.

Kabagambe says the aspect of local content which has been raised- are we looking at Ugandans benefiting from the sector?

Kabagambe says we have carried out an extensive study on what goods and services there are in the Ugandan market in view of understanding what is on our market and also to train.

Kabagambe thanks M7 for the Kigumba petroleum institute. He says Ugandans can offer like catering services to cook for the workers because people in the oil wells have no time to cook for themselves.

Museveni asks him to answer how the people of Uganda benefit. M7 says there are 2 categories like the experts whom they are multiplying by training technicians from Kigumba. He says the institute is to train people to man the petroleum jobs so that they don’t be taken by experts.

M7 asks Kaabagambe to answer the cooking details. Kabagambe that having local people supply services is the key content in the contracts made with the companies.

Kabagambe says that policy is in the agreements.

Kabagambe says the business is vibrant and we have various companies. Museveni interrupts that when some body knows that there is a lot of passengers in Wandegeya he will come and park his taxi in Wandegeya because he knows there are many students. Now when I park my taxi, yo don’t say that I pay you because I have parked my taxi, unless somebody has hired me to park my taxi there.

Museveni says if no body hires me, then I can park there my taxi until the whole day. He says some people were saying that Makerere University should pay me because I have parked my taxi there.

M7 aks if there is anything else which is being asked. Kabagambe says $39m well of Ngasa- that people are saying its very expesinve. He explains that on average a well costs $10m. he says Ngasa well was grilled at the face of the lake and it required being grilled vertically and then depth of about 2000 meters and about 2.9meters. he says its is a very big well.

5:34pm:- Museveni says he was told that we have discovered 23 oil fields and a full of oil underground(Ekyidiba). He says however you can have different wells, even in one oil field. He says you have have one oil field from here up to Sheraton and up to Makerere but build more oil wells within it.

Museveni says we have sunk 64 wells and 59 have been found with oil- that is what Ps Kabagambe has told him that it is extra-ordinary. He says even in the world, it is not normal to hear.

Museveni asks what other confusion there is in the public domain—

Kabagambe says the other confusion is on the current transaction.. and he will explain. Museveni says those he will handle.

Museveni says he was told that we have discovered 23 oil fields and a full of oil underground. (Ekyidiba) he says however you can have different wells, even in one oil field. He says you have have one oil field from here up to Sheraton and up to Makerere but build more oil wells within it.

Museveni says we have sunk 64 wells and 59 have been found with oil- that is what Ps Kabagambe has told him that it is extra-ordinary. He says even in the world, it is not normal to hear.

Museveni asks what other confusion there is in the public domain—

Kabagambe says the other confusion is on the current transaction.. and he will explain. Museveni says those he will handle.

5:26pm:- Kabagambe- Kaliisa says that the institutional arrangements require that the people who are brought into the sector are qualified. He says there have been some nay challenges but now the people being recruiited are qualified.

Kabagambe says the companies are now compelled to advertise for goods and services so that there is accountability and fairnesss and esnure that the expenditure incurred but if we find there is an expenditure which was incurred wrongly- that is not our business.

Museveni asks him where those accountabilities are captured.

Kabagambe says they are captured in Auditor General audit reports. He says there is an interministerial team which looks at the budget.

5:14pm:- Kabagambe says we are not yet producing crude for oil production but only for testing.

He says we are to use it initially to support Hima cement.

He also says it will be used for industry and proper production in the next 6 months as a short term measure

There are new challenges in terms of management issues how to manage this recourse, the way we have manged the oil indistry in terms of managing it and regulating it is that we ar ca

He says the agreements have been availed to parliament as an arm of government- however the kind of agreements are confidential by their nature.

Kabagambe says there are many types of agreements eg the concession agreement where government allows a compnay to explore but government remains with their asset.

• He says there is also a PSA which Uganda has been using.

• Museveni says in the three categories of agreements, the state surerender the oil, the new compnay takes root for the oil and if you find its yours and the compnay only gets the revenue (he explians the concession agreement)

• Museveni also explains another type of agreemenet where when a compnay finds the oil, the countyr pays them what they invested in and the compnay goes away.

• Museveni says the PSAs agreement is what Uganda has used. The compnaies bring the money, look for the oil and if yo don’t find it, it is your fault. The company doesn’t lose anything.

4:54pm:- President Museveni starts his National address at Nakasero state Lodge

• He says he is to give information to the people of uganda about some issues which are being discussed in Parliament and radios but because he doesn’t listen to radios, it is correct that the information given to them

• I would like to ask the PS Kabagambe Kalisa to take the leradership because he has been in the ministry longer. I don’t want to ask the new minister

• I want you to touch on any issues you think are important

• PS Kabagambe starts discussing matters of oil and the whole oil sector

Ahead of President Museveni's speech addressing the concerns over the oil agreements debate in parliament, Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Kutesa, together with Government Chief Whip John Nasasira and Junior labour minister Mwesigwa Rukutana have this afternoon announced they have resigned from Cabinet ahead of their trial before the anti-corruption court tomorrow.