Gen. Aronda on 2011 polls, Karamoja  atrocities

Last week, the Chief of Defence Forces, Gen. Aronda Nyakairima, concluded a three-day trip to northern Karamoja to assess the progress of the ongoing disarmament programme. Our Senior Reporter Tabu Butagira, who travelled with the military, interviewed Gen. Nyakairima at the UPDF 405 Brigade headquarters in Nakapirimoru, Kotido district. In the excerpts below, the CDF defends army involvement in managing the forthcoming ballot and says they will accept another individual voted in as President, next year, as Commander-in-Chief if that person does not polarise Ugandans.

Qn: What has brought you here to Karamoja?

A: I’m in my field office that stretches from the Central African Republic to Somalia and across Karamoja. So if you find me in the western Kasese [district], don’t say what has brought you here. I’m here for my day-to-day work.

Qn: The one thing catching attention in Karamoja is the ongoing disarmament exercise. What is your assessment of its progress?

A: We have made tremendous progress in the history of this area, I think, since colonial times. I have been in Kaabong district and interacted with stakeholders/political leaders and they admitted one after another that they have a good situation that is now going to help them wage their election campaigns. In other words like before when security of Karamoja was always a very enduring electioneering issue, this time around, they don’t have serious issues with security.

They will be raising issues of development; the electors will be having issues with their leaders on development and corruption.

There’s another issue they have come up with – compensation. That President (Museveni) told them that he will be compensating them for cows that were lost in our hands. And true the President promised and it is a question of time. One unenlightened political leader said it will amount to “no compensation, no vote”. We educated him to have a global picture of Karamoja and we told him that anyone – even people in Teso and Lango who also lost cows - could ask for compensation.

But since the President promised them, the President will deliver on this promise.

Qn: Do we know how many animals we are talking about?

A: I think they were talking about around 553. Of course, the government will take a little a bit of time to verify these claims but since the President has already made his commitments, it can only delay but he will [fulfill] it.

Qn: In the past month, some of the political leaders in Karamoja, particularly (Upe County) MP Francis Kiyonga and former spy chief David Pulkol have raised allegations of human rights violations in the army (disarmament) operations. What’s your take?

A:I would rather we answer that question when we are in Amudat district where the issues are. The man who’s talking we can engage one another in structured meetings. We have disarmament meeting from the Sub-county all the way to the regional [level]. We have district security committee meetings, we have extra-ordinary committee security meetings, we have meeting with MPs from time to time. I think when an individual MP chooses to speak for himself; then one can have a lot of suspicions on what he’s talking about.

Qn: Has it been brought to your attention if there are elements within the UPDF who go against disarmament principles, especially seizing people’s animals indiscriminately or killing civilians?

A: No, no, no! Not to my knowledge. The last case I heard was [in April] in Rengen Sub-county in Kotido district and we investigated and found out those who were involved. There were some soldiers who went and carried out the operation contrary to what they were told to. But as for Amudat, we are yet to find out.

We have structured the security elements: Kaabong and Abim districts are under the [UPDF] 5^th Division. There’s an element of police and intelligence. So it’s not possible for anyone to cover up. If the UPDF wanted to, which cannot be, police will tell it. If UPDF and police wanted to hide, intelligence will tell it. If all of them wanted to, the political authorities will tell it. So that’s the structure.

But what I can tell you is that we have thoroughly prepared the officers and men of UPDF in this subject (disarmament). When I was in Kaabong district, they said they still have isolated cases of raids by Jie (warriors) coming in threes. They don’t have isolated cases of soldiers abusing the people’s rights. That’s what I have always known. Assuming there was an isolated incident, we will deal will that.

Karamoja is lucky; they have had good rain and I think they will have a bumper harvest. The indices of irreversible achievement and restoration of peace are there for everyone to see.

Qn: In the established issue (of army culpability in Rengen), what have you done about it?

A:The situation is such that there is strategic situation, there’s operational situation and there is tactical situation. So when we take action, it depends on where and what type of situation it is. For a soldier who fired at an (innocent) person, the brigade commander deals with that through unit disciplinary committee or brigade courts.

At my level, I deal with strategic issues and with operational issues only when Division authorities are repeatedly reported on that they are not taking action. So Rengen was a tactical situation and [UPDF 3^rd ] Division authorities handled it.

Qn: This week a dossier surfaced in Kampala with pictures of corpses of people allegedly shot by the miltray rotting in the wilderness in Karamoja and vultures eating the dead bodies. Is there a sense within the army that something has gone terribly wrong in regard to the Special Forces Group? What’s the purpose of deploying the elite force to Karamoja anyway?

A:You see, don’t get it wrong. I had already advised you that on September 4-6, we will be in Amudat district and I would not want to go into that matter because we want to verify facts progressively. The obvious thing is there’s only one UPDF. So which strange UPDF is this that is beginning to come with dead bodies and all that?

I dismiss [the dossier] completely as a heap of lies by some fellow who want to gain some political capital in the heat of election campaigns.

Otherwise, solders know we have been conducting firing squads before [for murder convicts]. They have been thoroughly trained and what we emphasise in our training is that anyone who disregards discipline does a disservice to the UPDF. Because we know it’s not about numbers. You can have the numbers but if you don’t have discipline you cannot do anything or [undertake a] battle successfully. Weapons do not make an army to be superior to another, discipline does. And we train to shoot and shoot well – we call it marksmanship. Number two, we train them to be disciplined because we tell them that discipline refines talent and turns it into ability. So it’s discipline, marksmanship and political education and emphasis on health. Now we are going to start teaching the soldiers financial literacy and entrepreneurial skills so they can be able to follow Prosperity-for-All, National Agricultural Advisory Services (Naads) and all other government programmes. In addition, we’ll be teaching them operations other than war and these are peace-keeping, peace enforcement and handling law and order situations. But are they all okay? They are not.

However, commanders and soldiers know the consequences of doing acts that are inconsistent with what our doctrine emphasises: Our strategic relationship with the citizens. Because we know all the victories we have registered since 1980s to date were grounded in good relationship with the ordinary people and they know it. You cannot disarm anyone in Karamoja if you are quarrelling with the leaders or NGOs all the time. So what the dossier is about can only be looking for votes and those votes will not be brought by those dossiers; the votes will be brought by a candidate’s programme for developing Karamoja development. We have known that security is linked with development and that’s why we are focused on disarming the Karimojongs so that development can take place. That’s why the President has said: You don’t say that since I don’t have water; I need a gun to get it.

Put down guns, it’s the responsibility of government to give you water; secure your cows. So that scientific linkage is very, very important. We are a people’s army; what’s important is what we believe in not harming our relations with the people. That way we will fail and we cannot afford to fail having reached this far to be one institution that has public trust.

So if there’s anyone associated with a dossier even if we investigate and found proof, this is an isolated incident; it’s not a trend. We don’t have a culture of abusing our people; we don’t have a culture of impunity and warlords in the UPDF. This will be an isolated incident and we will deal with it when we come across it.

Qn: Talking about relations with citizens, there was a comment in the press recently in which you seemed to suggest the army will crush opposition demonstrators if they cause problems. Would you clarify on that?

A:Someone had said: What’s in a name? So I can equally say what’s in a word? Hmmnnn! Anyway (Army Spokesman Lt. Col. Felix Kulayigye suddenly interjects to stress need for demonstrators to comply with established procedures) and journalists were there and yes and that’s what you chose.

But what I can repeat and what I have been telling the extra-ordinary security committee of Kaabong district is that since 1996 to 2001 to 2006, this time around it will not be different. The electoral law is very clear that when called upon by police, we support police to secure people who are threatened by violent gangs and we’ll do the same his time around. We cannot sit back and say that’s the business of police. Never, never, never, never, never! So we’ll do that like we have done it; we did it in 2006 so that it did not amount to a crush because we secured people.

What I was saying, and I say it again, is that when called upon – the lead element is police – the electoral law is very clear. Like here in Kotido district, the election security commander will be the District Police Commander. This man (UPDF 405 Brigade commander Lt. Col. Julius Biryebarema) is highly trained, experienced in counter-insurgency but he will be a deputy to a recent graduate of Kabalya (Police Training School) in Masindi. Because we value the working arrangement, this man (Brigade commander) will be made a deputy. But he would have been the one in-charge, but we don’t want it.

In the event that Kotido people are peace, he will continue disarming.

Q: Will the UPDF accept another President as Commander-in-Chief because there has been criticism that yours is more or less like the President Museveni’s personal army.

A:For us we have told you many, many times that this is a people’s army since it was founded and after the first bullet [in the attack] on Kabamba (barracks) on the morning of February 6, 1981, throughout the five-year [guerilla war] and to-date. Anyone who imputes bad motive would rather be taken to court. Of course we are associated with that person (Gen. Museveni) as the founder and he is the President and Commander-in-Chief. So we are loyal to that individual; the founder, the freedom-fighter, the liberator and all that.

So if that time comes and if Ugandans elected [a different] person – it was even made clear in the constitution  - as long as that person keeps Uganda together, yes, we will continue with that person. But should anyone divide the people of Uganda - to violate the Constitution- then the army will say no. Ours is we support what the people of Uganda support; we‘ll go with the people of Uganda.

Qn: Back to the disbarment exercise, there is an allegation that some Karimojong leaders are behind cattle-rustling in this region. Is this something you know about and what are your doing to stem it since no leader has been arrested?

A:All that we are talking about is that all stakeholders and elected leaders should try to do their part for the disarmament to succeed. But for someone to turn around and say I’m not disarming because an MP or some leader is participating isn’t helpful at all. They may not be vigilant and come out and say we are now going to do everything it takes for the disarmament to succeed because some of them use it to be elected because it’s still popular for a while. Having a gun is still popular among the electorate. So if you are a populist, you go with that even when you know it’s bad.

At least we have a critical mass among the leaders to build a strategic civil-military relationship to get rid of the illegal guns and isolate individuals suspected to be colluding with the warriors or playing up to politics. In any case, we will turn the situation around with the cooperation of all or not.

I have now decided that come October, I’m going to give UPDF 5^th Division Kotido district alongside Kaabong and Abim districts (because) so that the 3^rd Division can concentrate on Moroto, Napak, Nakapiripit and Amudat districts and the borderline. This will ensure that by the time we go to elections next year, guns and cattle-rustling will not be key issues.

Qn: You say you have made great strides in the disarmament exercise which has been ongoing for nearly a decade. Do you have a timeline when the operation will end or is it open-ended?

A:No, it is not open-ended. To some people, ending the Lord’s Resistance Army [rebellion] meant we should have captured [the rebels’ commander Joseph] Kony; kill him or cause him to surrender and short of that, we don’t have peace. But we have not killed or captured him and he has not surrendered but Gulu is the fastest-growing municipality in the country next to Kampala city.

Whether we get the last rifle or not, the guns will become irrelevant. There will be one or five people holding guns, disturbing others here and there but they will no longer delay [development in the region]. The President wrote a document saying that Uganda is ‘undelayable and unstoppable’ in terms of development and Karamoja should be part of that.

So we will not get the last gun but we will get an environment conducive for development in Karamoja. What am I talking about, bwana Butagira? That all the roads will be available and safe for use. We have already been allowed to engage contractors to build more than fifteen security roads.

This includes tarmacking the road that’s going to run from Muyembe in [the eastern] Sironko district to Moroto. Your concern will be even if government had the money, can these warriors allow this? I tell you that that road will be started and completed.

The government is going to put electricity line again from Muyembe in Sironko all the way to Ketikekile at the Kenyan border another electricity line from Abim district to Kotido and one will say will it be? I can tell you it will be.

The other sticking point is with all these guns and rustling, will elections in Karamoja be held in a free, fair and tranquil situation? I say yes.

Coming in of guns (from neighbouring countries) has been significantly checked like never before because of strategic re-structuring of Karamoja and its security architecture.

Qn: On that point, if, God forbid, Sudan erupts into violence before, during or after the January 9 2011 referendum, there’s a likelihood illegal guns will find their way into Uganda. Is there worry if trouble flares up in Sudan, there will be increased gun-trafficking here?

A: Khartoum knows the consequences of violence because they were at it before since their independence around 1962 (Sudan got independence in 1956 – Editor). They have been in one conflict after conflict. So I don’t think whether Khartoum will not seek for – in an event of disagreement - that they would rather go back to the table to negotiate some parts of the [2005] Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA). That makes sense because they know where they are coming from on this matter of conflict. Southern Sudanese people have tasted freedom since they existed as a people and they will seriously guard that. If there’s a problem, they will apply diplomacy or negotiation and if the other ones (Khartoum officials) chose to go to war, I know southern Sudanese will go back and defend themselves like they did and forced them (President Omar Bashir’s National Congress Party government) into signing the CPA.

The worst case scenario is that what if all those things don’t work and war comes to pass, is it going to cause us any problems? It can only cause trade disruptions because our tomatoes, eggs and pineapples will not really go to Juba, which will be at war.  And our schools could lose some students because they will be back to Internally Displaced Persons (IDP) camps in Sudan. But for guns coming in, Uganda will never - since 1986 – be a (Democratic Republic of) Congo or the Central African Republic (CAR) or southern Sudan.

It is not possible that you have spaces in Uganda that are ungoverned like in CAR and Garamba forests where Kony occupies territories and no government security authorities challenged him. If anyone strayed into our area, we would catch and disarm. Uganda is no safe haven for negative forces.

Q: Any last word on Karamoja?

A:  To the public I think Karamoja’s chances of participating in the Prosperity-for-All (PFA) are greater now than ever before and I call upon them to go out in their numbers to take advantage of this good environment. Those who are going to cultivate should go and do it like never before; those who are looking after livestock go and treat their livestock because there’s now pasture especially since they have accessed land that had been lost because of raids. Every district is reporting we have now accessed the land which had been lost due to the raids. It’s so in Abim and Kaabong districts and I am sure it is here in Kotido and more so in Nakapiripirit. So it’s production time. There are chances of catching up with the rest; accounting for the Shs20 million which the President wants as an annual income [for every family].

Now for the first time, Kaabong district has put up a small Council Hall. We used to meet in the hospital (boardroom). So I congratulated them.

The government is under-taking to construct a road from Kaabong to Southern Sudan. We will begin getting trade from Eastern Equatoria [State] directly unlike now when a trader from Eastern Equatoria has to first go to Juba and then come through Acholi or West Nile before reaching Karamoja.

You will find schools in Mbale and Kampala full of our friends from South Sudan. We have no issues between the Dodoth in Kaabong and their neighbours – the Dinka and the Toposa in southern Sudan and Kenya. The cross-border civil-military relations are well and local leaders, please, work towards improving team-building and demanding accountability.

Abim district has a problem, I think. Corruption is eating into this new district. One thing that’s going to be raised with these political leaders is really the issue of corruption; they can’t continue singing insecurity, insecurity endlessly.

Oh! Could I attend a meeting [in Kaabong] and we talk other things other than guns? Interesting! We are now discussing corruption. It’s not my business but it is encouraging that we can talk about those things which are delaying development.

Thank you very much, General.