Bakkabulindi: Museveni entrusts me with sports because I’m a performer

Kampala.

You were first appointed State Minister for Education and Sports in 2005, later retained in 2006, 2009, 2011, 2015, and this year. What is it that President Museveni sees in you that some others do not?
The appointing authority has its parameters of selecting somebody. On that I can’t tell. On my side, remember I have a background of a trade unionist; I was a footballer (amateur), and an administrator.
This (sports) is a very unique sector. I’m heading 53 disciplines of sports but majority are looking at only one, and that is football. We need to compare from 2005 up to now how sports has developed.
How many new disciplines have come on board? How many old ones have now improved? Now if I tell you netball can go to the World Cup and represent us! Rugby also represented us on the world stage (2007 African champions). Look at woodball, kickboxing… These are things you did not hear about before.

But how is the emergence of those new sports your work?
I’m the leader, a policy maker. The leader gives guidance. He does not participate in the implementation (per se) but his guidance creates a favourable environment for people to do what they want.

For now, can you please name at least five things you consider your achievements as Sports Minister?
Point number one is personal. I have come to learn to interact with people and understand them. Two; the sports sector has grown. You have to realise that it was in my period when we were shifting from amateur to professionalism.
We are now selling a product of football; you have seen athletes run and get money. In fact we are soon passing the new bill for physical activities and sports. This one will be repealing the 1964 Act.
It is already in the first Parliamentary Council, and it will put into consideration what is in the regulations we operationalised recently and the new dynamics of sports.

But one would argue that an apparent move from amateur to professional sport is a change of times, not necessarily Bakkabulindi’s work…
If the change of time happens during my regime, then it is me. I was telling somebody that previously, you had to count medals. But you don’t need to count medals now because they are many.
In athletics, in rugby, in woodball, in kickboxing, body building… Not because Bakkabulindi is the one participating, but because Bakkabulindi is the overall guidance, and when I perform, His Excellency has also performed. When Kiprotich (Stephen, 2012 London Olympics marathon gold medallist) is on the field, it is not Bakkabulindi running, but Bakkabulindi as Minister of Sports can take the credit, so does the big man (President).

And when Kiprotich or the Uganda Cranes do not perform well, then you have also failed. Right?
Yes, I have failed in that respect but my role is mainly soliciting for funds and policy making. Take an example, the President is implementing the giving of a very good token to athletes who have excelled, with a gold medallist getting Shs5m per month (silver Shs3m and bronze Shs1m); but it took my lobbying and the President was convinced. That is the third point I’m proud of. I’m still doing the same so that the footballers can also be awarded per month.
The fourth one by the way is emerging of new sports. My fifth achievement; there is increased secondary school competition, which we co-fund with schools. As we talk, we are champions of East Africa schools.

The State House money to athletes that have won international medals; some like Winnie Nanyondo, Simon Ayeko and Ronald Musagala among others have since last November not been paid. Why? And when do you structure this into a more systematic arrangement? And when does it reach team sport and ex-internationals/runners?
I was not aware about those athletes and their payments not coming. I’m going to follow it up. Now, the President was clear. He said he had started with athletics, and football and others would follow.
Up to now, I’ve been telling the Edgars (Watson, the Fufa CEO) to organise a formula on how it can work out, up to now, I have not heard from them. As for ex-internationals, it is a bit difficult… You backdate it to when? How many are they? And by the way, the current arrangement is only for active athletes. And like you said, we must constitute a proper system for this scheme immediately.

Let us talk Nakivubo. A number of buildings have since sprung up around the stadium, virtually suffocating it. Allegations are that parts of the stadium land have been sold and that you had a hand in that… How true?
To me, Nakivubo is on track. People saying that Nakivubo was sold in pieces are wrong. Nakivubo is still intact. The land title is there. There are those who think that Nakivubo is a memorial something that should just stand like a statute in the centre of the city, which is wrong.
You know local football is not generating money now, and for Nakivubo to generate money, you have to have a modern stadium with structures to generate money.
People should also separate the person from a government stand. The minister appoints a board, which looks at a cabinet paper on how to modernise Nakivubo. The board then looks at people who will modernise Nakivubo and get clearance from the Public-Private Partnerships (PPP) and Auditor General. Once all those have cleared whatever you are going to embark on, it ceases to be a decision of Nakivubo, neither that of a minister but of government. People got excited because each person, even those just passing by Nakivubo, thought they should have been consulted.
Of course when we are talking Nakivubo, we are also talking Park Yard. Now, talking of the first investor, Ham Enterprises, who built the perimeter wall after it was brought down by fire, it was done urgently because Caf came saying the stadium must have a perimeter wall.

But the structure with lockups, which acts as a perimeter wall, is not even giving Nakivubo any returns… Just today, the stadium was locked up because of recurring taxes…
Ham constructed the perimeter wall after the PPP procedure. He was not constructing a charitable structure… He is a businessman and has to recoup the money. So he constructed with those lockups facing outside and reserving the view of a perimeter from inside.
The current agreement with Ham and Nakivubo is 15 years, and had it not been for some interference from some people and politicians, he would soon be contributing a certain percentage to Nakivubo.
The arrangement is that after five years of Ham recouping his money, he starts contributing a certain percentage to Nakivubo and once the 15 years elapse; the lockups become property of Nakivubo. Now, imagine after 15 years, Nakivubo is getting money from those lockups, do you think football will cry?

How did Ham Enterprises get the deal for the perimeter wall and entire stadium?
They are four investors that bid. Ham, Nterenfune Enterprises, Bestin Limited, and Future Land.
For the perimeter wall, it was selective bidding for one simple reason - because it was needed urgently. Caf wanted it and Nakivubo needed to clear some debts in taxes. Later Ham returned and expressed interest in doing the whole stadium.
Ham already got a nod from the President but now with the other three bidders, this is something that we shall have to sit and harmonise.

So when is that beautiful artistic impression Ham presented to the President last year occupying Nakivubo?
As of now, Nakivubo’s plan, which encompasses all bidders, and that of Ham, are already at KCCA. But they are almost the same… They are yet to be approved. Once KCCA clears them, we shall hopefully have harmonised with the other parties who also put in bids, and work on a modern stadium at Nakivubo will start.

Who is in charge of the car park at Nakivubo?
The board of Nakivubo is. That is some of the limited revenues that come in, including the advertising boards… But when you look at the expenditure, electricity, salaries, maintenance… That is why the stadium must be revamped.

As the docket minister, you appoint boards to Namboole, Nakivubo and all… What are the criteria you use to arrive at your choices?
I put so many factors into consideration. For instance, there is regional balance, religion and professionalism. For example, the chairman is an engineer. Why? Because some people were arguing that I look for footballers, but there is a difference between management and playing football, and structures going to spring up will need somebody with a clearer idea.

Three to four years ago, Daily Monitor reported about dilapidated Mbale, Gulu, Akii-Bua, Bugembe and Kakyeka Stadiums among others. At the time, government reiterated commitment to renovate regional stadia, on top of building the new Akii-Bua one. What became of this?
You are right. Everything was done; study, assessment - even Akii-Bua Stadium. But the problem? Money. (Lira District authorities in February handed over 50,000 sq metres of land to the central government to pave way for Akii-Bua Stadium construction). Even the High Altitude Centre in Teryet, the groundwork was done. Electricity, water, and the school that was there was also relocated. Now the problem that we are facing is the road construction.

Talking of the High Altitude Centre, it was one of the strong points that earned Uganda the hosting rights of the 2017 IAAF World Cross-Country Championships. The promise was that the centre would be ready by then.
Bwana Andrew, Uganda runs a cash budget. That is the difference we have with developed countries. For us, we depend on what that lady at URA collects that financial year, and it is not always sufficient and comes with priorities. So, for the High Altitude Centre, I needed Shs25b for 2016/2017, but they have allocated only Shs5.8b. Akii-Bua at least, I needed Shs2b, I have been given Shs1b. For physical education and sports department, I needed Shs22.1b, I was given Shs2.1b, and NCS needed Shs50.6b but got (only) Shs3.2b. In total, for sports development - and it is recurrent, I needed Shs99.7b but I have got only Shs12.1b, a deficit of Shs87.6b.

I see a lot of frustrations as you explain this. So what’s the plan?
We need to advocate for the visibility of sports. How? We need people to understand that with modern sports, there is a boost of tourism. That with sports, we can contribute to economic development. Then there is need to bring the co-funders on board, the corporates.
But we also need to create incentives for those who want to provide sports equipment. That is the start. You already have that project of this Garcia (Rayco) from Barcelona who wants to establish an academy here.

Boxing has four of our seven medals at the Olympics. But it is during your time that Uganda failed to send boxers to the Games thanks to wrangles that you did not solve in time. Actually, your tenure has seen only one Olympic medal, Kiprotich’s gold in London four years ago.
At around that time, boxing had numerous wrangles and their leaders resorted to go to courts of law, which I’m against, and once matters are before court, the minister can’t act.
That is why we missed. It was until the Nyakanas (Godfrey) and Ddungus (Roger) saw light and decided that ‘let us get out of court’. That is when some sanity prevailed.
You were cited in the media seemingly siding with athletics coach, Peter Wemali, who is on remand facing aggravated defilement charges, that he was innocent. Do you stand by those attributions?
You see, before you jump into something, you first find out. We sent our representative Sammy Odongo to go and tell us what exactly was on the ground. He delivered the report to me and the Minister (ex-senior, Jessica Alupo). Then the athletics federation also did their investigations and said Wemali is innocent.
I said are you sure? Then I went personally to Kapchorwa and met the elders and listened to their side. It was a lengthy story including bewitching stories. Then an investigation was again done, and said the man is A, B, C. Now we have to wait for the final court ruling.
You cannot accuse me that on preliminary; I was quoted that I was on his side. I was quoted on what investigations produced.

I read the investigations report from your ministry and it actually found Wemali offside and recommended that UAF ban him from their activities pending further investigations.
If I say, according to UAF, the person is this, and according to other investigations, he is that, then those are not my personal conclusions.

The Constitutional Court in August 2013 outlawed Fufa Ltd but it has continued operating unabated. The same Court found you in contempt of its orders in relation to abetting Fufa Limited elections the same year.
You see, I first need to address the allegation, which was brought by those fighting me that I was in Jinja for that Fufa assembly. At that time, I was in Lira for schools games, but some people with ill intentions concocted documents that I was in Jinja. But later I used my lawyers and presented evidence that I was not in Jinja and the same judge, Kiryabwire (Geoffrey), overturned the ruling (Daily Monitor has a copy of that ruling). On the allegations that we have continued to deal with Fufa Limited, you can even fail to prove it in court that government has ever worked directly with Fufa Limited.
What government does, when the Uganda Cranes is going out, it funds the Cranes. But because of that Limited and Association ambiguity, we said enough is enough, you Fufa, you are confusing people. You have one body with two faces. Can you stop that?

The Constitutional Court ruling was that Fufa had incorporated a national association as Fufa Limited without government’s authorisation yet those responsible were not apprehended. Why?
You wanted me to dissolve the limited company? I don’t have the powers to dissolve the company. Me I know the de facto association. And to avoid that ambiguity, when we sat with Fifa (a week ago), I asked them to register a new Fufa.

Because of the lawlessness from both government and Fufa/Fufa Limited, Dan Walusimbi legally exploited the loopholes and registered Fufa the association. He holds the certificate of incorporation. How will you go around that?
Let us first reach the bridge; we shall see how to deal with the Walusimbi issue.

What do you talk about with the President when you meet?
First of all, I’m happy that my minister is the First Lady, Janet Museveni. With the President by the way, the political will for sports is there. But he keeps on telling me that Bakka, we are going to promote sports.
Give me some more time and I do these priorities first; roads, electricity, hospitals, schools…These alone will create conducive environment that will generate money for sports. And I agree with him.

Over the years, numerous accusations have been levelled against you. Bakkabulindi has killed sports, he never solves wrangles or is partial when he attempts. Are those wild allegations?
You see, when you are appointed, you are given terms and conditions. The appointing authority will always evaluate you according to those terms and targets. Now, the unfortunate part of it, each Tom and Dick, who is not part of that employment arrangement, does not know what I was told to do. And to me, the President keeping on re-appointing me, that means I’m on the right track, because I deliver.

What exactly did the President ask you to do?
This is what we have been discussing - developing sports.

Money allocated to sports sector

Shs12.1b
Money allocated to the sports sector this financial year, 87.6b short of what the ministry had applied for.

Shs3.2b
Allocation to National Council of Sports. They had asked for Shs50.6b.
Shs5.8b
Money allocated to the construction of the High Altitude Centre. The ministry had requested for Shs25b.

Shs2.1b
Allocation to physical education and sports. Shs22.1b was requisitioned.

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