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We will keep working with Ugandans, new US envoy says

Daily Monitor's Elizabeth Kamurungi (L) during an interview with America’s new ambassador to Uganda, William Popp (R). PHOTOS/ ABUBAKER LUBOWA
What you need to know:
In his first media interview, America’s new ambassador to Uganda, William Popp spoke to Monitor's Elizabeth Kamurungi about Washington’s priorities in the country and concerns about the human rights landscape. The interview has been slightly edited for clarity and brevity.
Question: You have been in Uganda for a few months. What are your impressions?
Answer: I am very glad to be here. I have been here for two months, returning to serve in Africa after having been here years ago in Kenya and, before that, in Angola. It has been a great reception, great to meet Ugandans from all walks of life. I have had the chance, even in the first few weeks, to not only visit lots of folks in Kampala but also go out of Kampala. Last week I was in southwestern Uganda to see our programmes and activities and some of the folks we work with and it has been very warm, very welcoming and very exciting to see what the US and the Ugandan people are doing together.
Q: What will be your areas of focus during your tenure?
A: My job is to continue to connect the American people and the Ugandan people, and work for a more prosperous, healthier, safer, better world together. Uganda and the United States have long-standing relations; last year we celebrated 60 years of a result-focused relationship, and I hope to achieve results in all those areas.
Q: What areas do you see for future collaboration?
A: Health is one of the areas we are most known for, particularly the work done to fight HIV/Aids. We are focused on ensuring that Ugandans have a brighter future, and a brighter future starts with opportunities to access education, have a healthier life, and live in communities that are peaceful and advancing positively.
Relations continue to evolve, like every bilateral relations, but our commitment to working with the Ugandan people remains very strong and much sustained. We see human rights as fundamental for achieving democracy, prosperity, and security. Sometimes there is a tendency to see it as a separate issue, but from our perspective, it permeates all these areas and the ability to advance in them.
Q: During your tour in western Uganda you pledged support in the fight against terrorism. Can you unpack what this support package entails?
A: There are various factors. Terrorism is a threat that affects all countries in the world, so where we can work together and share information, we should do so to try and prevent anyone who might use violence against innocent people. So where we have credible timely specific information, of course, we are going to share it to prevent violence against Ugandans. There are also elements of capacity building, training, protection, and respect for human rights, so the security forces know how to work with communities; that is key to fighting terrorism. And finally, supporting regional stability and regional efforts against terrorism. One of the examples where we continue to work not only with Uganda, but other countries, is in Somalia. The ATMIS mission where, unfortunately, the al-Shabaab and other groups continue to victimize the Somali people, where Uganda and other countries in the region have had a long-standing commitment with the US and other donor support to fight terrorism there.
Q: The ATMIS mission is drawing down and preparing to transfer security responsibility to Somali authorities by the end of 2024. Is the US confident that after nearly 20 years of foreign military presence, the Somali government will contain al-Shabaab? Are there concerns that we could see a repeat of what happened in Afghanistan?
A: Any of these transition periods are very challenging and in Somalia, after years of being victimized and threatened and having to face challenges that al-Shabaab has presented, a transition is going to be difficult. It should be supported by partners like Uganda and the United States, with the Somali government. It should be conditions-based, it shouldn’t just be based upon a calendar time parse. The circumstances should help set the pace for any type of transition so that when the government authorities there are ready it can be successful. We believe in a regional discussion and solution- and decision-making process for any transitional timetable. There is one through 2024, but we hope that the conditions will fit with that timeline and where it doesn’t, all stakeholders should discuss and examine any adjustments and changes to that process.
Q: There are sentiments that the United States’ investment in Uganda’s military, which is President Museveni’s strongest political tool, has kept or aided his stay in power for nearly four decades. What would you say to that?
A: I don’t think that’s accurate. What is oftentimes one of the misconceptions is that US security assistance is very large. In fact, it is less than three percent of all of our assistance. It is much focused today, and has been for some time, on areas like human rights protection and development; in other words, training security forces to respect human rights, and peacekeeping operations such as in Somalia, and other locations. At times there is an impression that it is something other than that. I think that type of training is very common for the US to support various militaries around the region, and the world in these areas. It is a professionalisation process to support respect for human rights, civil-military relations, transparency, logistics and maintenance, keeping with professionalisation trends across Africa and the world for militaries.
Q: How is the US supporting Uganda in strengthening local and regional security, especially with neighbours like DRC?
A: It starts with efforts to find peace in Eastern DRC. There are many mechanisms. It is important to have dialogue, not only with the governments but also with these armed groups to improve the security and stability of the DRC. By doing so, not only will there be fewer refugees and human suffering, but also less space for terrorist groups to operate. It starts with that diplomatic effort.
Q: Can you comment on the governance in Uganda?
A: Hearing the voices of the people and including all citizens in decision-making is fundamental. Freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and respect for basic human rights; people should not be afraid to exercise their rights. All these are key to a thriving, successful democracy. Unfortunately here in Uganda, there have been challenges and we have spoken about them in our annual human rights reports and statements over the years, around elections in 2016 and 2021. These are challenges that everyone can see that exist but our hope and commitment is to continue to work with stakeholders to support democracy wherever we can. [Promoting] the role of civil society and the role of the media and all citizens in knowing their rights and being able to exercise those rights under Ugandan law and hopefully contribute to good governance, transparency the fight against corruption and the respect for everyone’s dignity.
Q: While the US condemns these human rights violations, the 60-year alliance continues. Hasn’t the NRM government crossed the red line for the United States?
A: Our assistance, nearly $1 billion a year, is with the Ugandan people. Nearly 96 percent of that assistance goes directly to non-governmental organisations, to local projects not affiliated with any government because our commitment is results-based and focused to try to help improve health, access to education, job creation and opportunity. Some 1.5 million Ugandans receive assistance from the President’s Emergency Fund for Aids Relief (Pepfar), to prevent HIV or receive treatment to live with HIV. Over 96 percent of all Ugandans who are HIV-positive receive support from the United States through the Pepfar programme. We want, in the longer term, to help Uganda to be healthier, more prosperous and reach self-reliance and through this development and humanitarian assistance, we hope to achieve that.
Q: President Museveni often calls the West out for lecturing him on democracy and rights. Don't you think he has a good point seeing that your attitude towards human rights is varied? Also, some of these violations mirror what happens in the US like gun violence and abuse against black people. Does the US have the moral authority to lecture other countries?
A: No country is perfect. I think countries, the United States included, are working on those issues. We have to continue to be honest and open about the challenges we face. The US has been a democracy for 245 years and we are continuing to work at making that democracy as inclusive and wholesome as possible and making sure that everyone’s rights are respected under the law. And so when we talk about those issues as the US, whether it is here in Uganda or anywhere in the world, it is not to be interfering or to come from a position that we have it all so perfectly figured out. Rather it is to have an honest recognition that all countries should continually commit themselves to working on these areas because that is what is at the core of democracy. The data show that societies where people’s individual rights are respected have more economic growth, healthier lives, and more security. So it is good for Uganda, good for the United States, and good for the region. Every country has experiences to share and views to convey when they are concerned about human rights violations. And if there are issues in the United States, we do not reject comment on what’s happening. There is still work to be done, and as friends, as societies, the Ugandan people and people around the world should look at what is happening in the United States, and should express their views, engage with Americans about it and we look to do the same with partner societies around the world.
Q: You started your tour of duty in the aftermath of the enactment of the Anti-Homosexuality Act, followed by tongue-wagging by various actors, including Washington, which last week issued an advisory to its business community. Ugandans continue to wonder what the West’s priorities are. In the just-concluded election cycle, there were unprecedented rights violations but the response wasn't as stern as that related to AHA. Do some human rights matter more than others?
A: If you look at our statements and the actions we took after the 2021 elections for example and since then, they are much broader than the Anti-Homosexuality Act. Even the business advisory refers to many factors that US companies are advised to take into consideration if they are going to do business here, not just the AHA. And that reflects our broader concern about the various risks, the various concerns that are here. We have taken visas away from individuals before the AHA existed when they violated provisions of US visa law. We have readjusted or redirected our assistance at different times, security for example. Various provisions prevent us from providing certain types of security assistance to various units, individuals not just in Uganda; those are worldwide policies and we have implemented those over years based upon concerns with broader human rights. All the things we are working on are in the broad context of supporting democracy, governance, respect for all human rights for all individuals, including the LGBTQI community members, but also other individuals who have faced either abuses of their human or civil rights.
Q: You have emphasised that your investment is to the Ugandan people, but when the AHA happens and you review assistance like Pepfar, that means people living with HIV will be adversely affected. Why wouldn’t you consider specific sanctioning of individuals who have strongly fronted this?
A: First of all, the assistance will continue. We are working to ensure that everyone who has received live-saving antiretroviral care and preventative services, will continue to receive it. Our goal is to not have anyone, including people who might identify as LGBTQI, be prevented from receiving that support. I don’t want to speculate on what type of actions we may take or not take against specific individuals, we will announce those when and if we take such matters.
Q: The State Department issued a business advisory recently, in addition to the June travel advisory. We also know President Biden announced a review of Washington’s engagement with Kampala and multiple actions against Uganda following the AHA. What other sanctions/actions should Uganda expect?
A: I don’t want to get into hypotheticals or look into future elements too much, but I will say that in the health space, we do have the Country Operating Plan for 2023, it has been approved and is moving forward but there are elements to it that will be adjusted over the year. Over 95 percent of the resources provided are to NGOs and international institutions and partners, not the Ugandan government, but there will be some redirection and some readjustment in that space. We want to ensure that what we are doing with any of our assistance there is never discrimination against anyone as the US legal requirement for assistance. Everyone has equal access to the assistance that we are providing regardless of their race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, or any elements of their identity. We are ensuring that our assistance after the AHA is not being implemented by any organisation or entity that may discriminate against potential beneficiaries. That is a priority, and it is very important to emphasize that our goal is to ensure everyone who had access to treatment for HIV or our preventative services before AHA continues to receive it.
Q: We have seen the emergence of rival superpowers like China and Russia in Africa. Doesn’t the meddling and policing by the US push African countries into their arms?
A: What we try to offer is opportunities and options. We have no interest in limiting any country’s relations with other nations. Uganda’s relations with any country are for Uganda to decide. What we try to offer is options; options for relations that are results-focused. They come without debt, without strings attached or commitments of resources. We are focused on building longstanding sustainable development and humanitarian benefits for Ugandans, and ultimately reaching self-reliance. We hope countries like Uganda will continue to want to work with the United States.
Q: The US Office of Trade Representatives puts foreign direct investment to Uganda at a paltry $41m. What is the plan to grow US businesses in Uganda?
A: American companies make their own decisions about where they are going to invest. We do not have state-owned enterprises. Some companies have invested in the country and the region, and they are models of good business practices, transparency, and long-term commitment. American investment is high quality in Uganda and around the world, because of the environmental, social, and anti-corruption standards. When American companies invest, maybe the number is not as high as in some other countries, but the quality of such investment has had a positive impact.
Q: Granted they are private companies, but when the US government issues a business advisory as it did recently, that affects their perception of investment in Uganda…
A: It gives them information to make a decision. And that is what the goal of advisories is. It is the same with travel advisories, ultimately American citizens make their choices, and our obligation is to ensure they have full, accurate, timely information. We do not recommend one thing or another, what we encourage them to do is be informed about the risks, challenges, the dynamics, and from that they will make their own decisions.
Q: There are sentiments that the United States is abetting Israel's violation of international law in Gaza. Why hasn’t the US called for a ceasefire as is the case in similar situations?
A: That is not true, and we reject that premise. What has happened there in recent weeks, the loss of innocent human lives, civilians, we all want that to stop. We have been clear about Israel’s right to self-defence but we have also been very clear about the importance of humanitarian aid being able to reach Gaza, to avoid the loss of civilian life through any type of security operations the Israelis might be taking, and to hopefully bring the violence to an end as soon as possible.
Q: How is the US supporting Uganda’s response to climate change?
A: Climate change is one of the biggest challenges we face today and its impact on food security, resource management, and vulnerability to natural disasters. We all need to prioritise climate change in our actions to reduce our carbon impact but also work together in strategies to, for example, have climate-smart agriculture, and I have gone out to see programmes we are helping Ugandan farmers use less fertilizer, produce with less water, move up the value chain in terms of their yields so they can use less land to generate more input and income. Working in areas like that, we hope to contribute to solutions.
Q: What interventions will be implemented during your tenure to improve the welfare of journalists in Uganda?
A: Media freedom is fundamental to any democracy. It is core that the citizenry should have clear, transparent, correct information. Journalists and independent media are the primary providers of that information. It is almost impossible to have a functioning, successful democracy without free media. Journalists should be protected, allowed to do their job, free of violence and persecution and, from the US perspective, we will always champion media freedom to ensure rigorous and transparent public dialogue and informed citizenry. We work together for journalists’ training, and fight against disinformation. Recently we launched an app that journalists can use to fact-check. This is one way we can counter misinformation and disinformation.