Mbabazi’s campaign not suitable for Uganda - Lukwago

You took some time to pronounce yourself on the Mbabazi, Besigye rivalry…
The emergence of Hon Amama Mbabazi in a new form with national ambitions created a huge opportunity for us to hasten the demise of NRM. It would cause the crumbling of the Movement empire because he is one of the key pillars on which the system was built.

But that is not what he wants to do; he says he wants to reform the Movement…
Yeah, this is where we have a problem. Instead of helping us dismantle the Movement empire, Mbabazi’s message was to strengthen it, reform it and force President Museveni to retire and then carry on with the system.

Is there a problem with reforming NRM so that it abides by the principles you say you are fighting for?
Certainly there is a problem because NRM is not a political party. It is not a political party that you can reform to engender the growth of multi-party democracy in this country. No. It is a monolithic empire; a kind of, as (Kizza) Besigye says, a kind of a cabal of individuals who created some kind of a system to syphon off our resources and to control State structures; in fact a military junta as Besigye says.
So Mbabazi has no capacity to transform a military junta into a democratic political institution. That was an illusion from the outset. That is not possible. So the Go-Forward brand is indeed good for the politics of this country, but not in the context it is viewed in and presented by its progenitor, Amama Mbabazi.
The Go Forward phenomenon, the way I see it, should have proclaimed that the Movement system is stuck, Museveni is expired, but the country should move on. It should have set out to terminate Museveni’s life presidency and kill the Movement system to enable the country to move on.
The illusion of the Go Forward brand is to imagine that there can be sustainable continuity in the Movement system by just transforming it to return to its original ideals. It would be good for my brother Mbabazi to recast his idea to recognise this important reality.
Secondly and related to that, the implementation of the idea ran into problems in its infancy. I thought it was originally intended to cause a tremor within the Movement system (NRM). And that is where Mbabazi’s strength originally was. The trembling he caused; the signs that came in the response of President Museveni when Mbabazi was rumoured to be interested in challenging him within NRM. Museveni responded like somebody who had serious cancer that was eating him up but he did not want to mention that he had it.
Indeed, Mbabazi rattled Museveni and caused confusion and he had started acting out of panic. He rushed to Kyankwanzi and began the sole candidature move, removed him from Cabinet and from the secretary general position, and other things. When Mbabazi announced that he was running Museveni had to dash back from South Africa and addressed a press conference at night attacking him.
So the Museveni who had pressed the panic button can now breathe within NRM. You know it is your opponent who defines the battleground and battle line. Museveni had defined the battle line against Mbabazi with NRM. He actually drew a line in the sand. Ugandans waited for Mbabazi to cross that line. Mbabazi should have crossed it. He did not.
Museveni’s Achilles heel, as he showed by the way he reacted to Mbabazi’s challenge, is within the Movement. Mbabazi should have continued hewing away at the Achilles heel. Mbabazi should have taken on Museveni within the Movement structure.
He was actually supported by the myth that he was the engine of NRM and that he had control of all the Movement structures. There was a myth that he had set up all the NRM structures and some would imagine that he knew every NRM chairperson in every electoral area. He should have continued to exploit that perception and pressed on within the party. He should have paid the Shs20m nomination fees to challenge Museveni within the party.
As Museveni panicked within NRM, Mbabazi kept quiet and appeared to watch every step. He seemed to behave like a leopard. A leopard can lie still in the bush, waiting for the prey and the opportune moment and once that time comes for it to pounce, the prey has no chance of escaping. That is how Mbabazi was perceived, like a leopard, ready to pounce on Museveni.
All of a sudden, Mbabazi veered off that path and failed to stretch Museveni to the limit. He ought to have pushed on to cause a situation where Museveni would have no choice but to drive him out of NRM and to call off primaries completely.
Unfortunately, Mbabazi decides to turn the tremor to the Opposition. That gave Museveni a sigh of relief. Instead of eating into Museveni’s power base to cause an exodus from NRM, he decided to eat into Besigye’s power base within the Opposition. The dynamics then changed. Within the Opposition, Mbabazi finds there are contradictions and rivalries – FDC versus DP, Mao versus Lukwago, and many others.
Now he aligns himself with the forces that had scores to settle with Besigye. And the captain of those forces is Mao. He assigned him the role of recruiting lieutenants for him. Now who are the lieutenants recruited? The likes of Mukasa Mbidde (DP vice president), the likes of (Michael) Mabikke (leader of SDP), and many others.
There are some credible people within the camp. Our brothers Hon Medard Sseggona and Hon Mathias Mpuuga, for instance. But Mao takes centre stage in everything. He had the audacity of saying once Lukwago joins TDA he moves out. They turned the Mbabazi project into a forum for fighting their traditional nemeses.
Mao wanted to use TDA, Mbabazi, every available tool, to crush Lukwago and Besigye, and Mbabazi fell into that trap. The war now turned to Besigye. And this was very unfortunate. So Museveni relaxed.

You kept quiet for a while when all this was happening…
Well, I was very unfortunate that Mao had portrayed me as a stubborn character. He blackmailed TDA that should they allow me in he would match out. Some credulous members of TDA bought into that theory and strategically, I said I wouldn’t be perceived in a worry way, in a negative sense. And luckily enough I convinced my colleagues within our pressure group, Platform for Truth and Justice (TJ), agreed to keep away from the TDA process however painful it was.
Much as we had ambitions, including my possible candidature for the presidential flag bearer position within TDA, we decided to shelve them. There will always be another chance.
The second reason I decided to keep quiet is that there were two candidates who had the potential to help us move forward. I wouldn’t discount Mbabazi if strategically he had made the correct decisions along the way; if he had not been misled by the likes of Mao.
For your information many people had high hopes in him, and that is the reason there has been prolonged dialogue between him and Besigye. We thought that actually the fundamentals were sorted out and we were convinced that he would champion the cause, there would be no problem.

What are those fundamentals?
I am talking about democracy, observing human rights, dismantling the Movement system as opposed to reforming it, overhauling State institutions, etc. If we had agreed on all those issues I don’t think there would be a problem. Even as I was outside the TDA process, I was confident that Dr Besigye would represent my views, because I know that he cannot easily compromise on issues that are not in the interest of the people.

So then your decision to back Dr Besigye in the coming election was natural…
Definitely. It is all those dynamics as they played me that compelled me to remain focused and steadfast in the Besigye camp. Within TJ, we agreed that everyone would back whoever they wanted between Besigye and Mbabazi. I wouldn’t impose my choice on everyone.
So Hon Sebuliba Mutumba and my brother Hon Latif Ssebaggala chose to support Mbabazi. There is a precedent to this because in 2011 even when we had a joint political platform, my brother Latif Ssebaggala supported Mao while I supported Besigye. So ours is a joint platform with a particular cause, especially to restore the values we hold dear, the values of truth and justice. We want to restore the glory of DP; that is our core interest.
At a national level, we want to fight for good governance, rule of law, human rights and so on.
The most important reason I chose Besigye is the political terrain of the day. We are in a battle with a tyrant to dismantle the system he has built over the years. To dismantle it requires leadership by a man with extra charisma, a man of tremendous tenacity, resilience, and of course a man who does not waver. Besigye has weathered all sorts of storms, be it against Museveni or even during the TDA process. This is a towering man indeed.
On the other hand, there is no evidence of his (Mbabazi’s) credentials to take on a dictator like we are facing. Look at the recent elections we have had. President Museveni used the State machinery to rig, and he is preparing to do it again. He uses excessive force – you know the Kibooko Squad and now we hear of crime preventers. The way Mbabazi has projected himself, with due respect, is like he is running a campaign in a normal, democratic country.
In a nutshell, he is a (Barack) Obama running an election campaign in Zimbabwe, Congo, Rwanda or Uganda. He would be trounced of course if he ran the kind of campaign he runs in America. If you assess the record of Nelson Mandela, you see a statesman, a suave man who was a peacemaker.
But during the apartheid era he was perceived as a terrorist. In fact he behaved like a real terrorist. So our situation requires us to act in a fierce, assertive manner. In the eyes of the State we may be terrorists but it is okay because projecting oneself as an Obama fighting a dictatorship would be disastrous.
Finally, Besigye’s message of defiance as opposed to compliance has captivated the electorate. On the other hand Mbabazi is running a compliance campaign. You will sympathise with me, a person who has suffered the brunt of State violence. For the past two years I have not stepped in the office that was entrusted to me by the people despite courts issuing orders for my office to be re-opened. You go to Parliament and raise those issues and the leadership of Parliament asks the government to open the office. They still refuse. Then the Prime Minister stands up in Parliament and says he will work with the Leader of the Opposition to ensure the re-opening of the office. Still nothing happens.
In other words, I have tried litigation and I have been successful; I have tried Parliament and I have been successful; I have tried negotiations with the Prime Minister and they have not yielded any positive results. How then do you convince me to associate myself with a compliance campaign packaged as a Go Forward campaign? Naturally, you would expect me to identify with a defiance campaign.
Your quarrels in DP never end…
Internal democracy within the party has not taken root. What is happening right now is that DP has been turned into a club of individuals dishing cards to friends, those who give them some inducements and those who play ball well with Mao. They are focused on serving their adherents. It is not based on any democratic principles. That is why some of us have stayed away.

Why are you returning to fight for the Lord Mayor job given the problems you have had in the office?
There is a political gimmick that has been played in Kampala for a while now, and some of the elites have gotten carried away by the propaganda accompanying it.
Hundreds of billions have been haphazardly sunk into projects without proper planning. The proxies representing President Museveni in Kampala – the minister, the executive director, the deputy executive director and the 10 directors – have benefitted from the vacuum in governance to mess up the city.
I am a fighter and I cannot allow this to go on a minute longer if there is something I can do about it. I am coming back to engender genuine sustainable transformation of the city because I am passionate about it and there are so many plans I had spearheaded that have since been messed up in the rush for quick fixes.

What if President Museveni returns to office and you also win; are we going to see the same war you we have had?
I am quite optimistic and hopeful that the curtains have closed on Museveni. He cannot go beyond 30 years in power. That seems to me to be the limit. But even if he were to return, he will be a lame duck; a grandfather handling grandchildren. He won’t be able to sustain iron fist politics.

Don’t you fear the Mbabazi versus Besigye dynamic will play into Museveni’s hands?
I see some positive aspect of it. Yes, we have presented the referendum mentality in our politics; that we must have two sides – the incumbent and the joint Opposition candidate. But to me if I am to get the trajectory well, one of two scenarios is likely, and the signs are showing.

One, at the leadership level you may fail to zero in on a particular candidate, but the voters will coalesce around a particular candidate. We have never had an election where we had only two candidates but the voters have always coalesced around a particular candidate to challenge the incumbent.

It is likely to happen even this time. You saw how Ugandans issued a powerful statement yesterday [Wednesday] in favour of Dr Besigye.

In the other possible scenario in case we are to have a three-horse race, there is a likelihood of Museveni being disoriented and not knowing who of the challengers to focus on. I saw it happen at his press briefing yesterday (Wednesday). He failed to zero in on a particular candidate.

I saw him hitting Besigye, then Mbabazi, and he went as far as hitting (Venancius) Baryamureeba. That has its own ramifications. One, the terror machine which Museveni applies may not be affecting one particular person this time, and may therefore not be very effective. It may therefore be a blessing in disguise.