I will keep questioning Bobi Wine, says Stella Nyanzi

Dr Stella Nyanzi, a member of FDC and a feminist who has participated in People Power movement activities, says it is normal to question the People Power/NUP principal.

How do you understand the concept of People Power?

I claim membership within People Power although I know movements and pressure groups don’t necessarily have membership criteria. They are waves or winds of change that sweep through a population and masses come up like dust on the rise when they see something sweeping through the land. Often, people with different interests, different locations, different age groups and different demographics join the movement if the cause of the movement speaks to their personal goals in life.

I began doing People Power activities after Mr Robert Kyagulanyi [Bobi Wine] supported Mr Kassiano Wadri (Arua Municipality MP) unlike many who may have started the journey from Kyadondo [East]. In Kyadondo, I am one of those who didn’t believe that Bobi could beat the other contenders. He was younger (politically). He was a musician. You know all of that past history. I didn’t go to Kyadondo, I wasn’t part of that journey. I was watching very cynically on my TV set, saying what a joke! FDC supported Apollo Kantinti, it was good for me that I didn’t participate in those elections because again I wouldn’t have supported Bobi.

In Bugiri [Municipality], I actively supported Eunice [Namatende of the FDC while Bobi supported Jeema’s Asuman Basalirwa, the eventual winner]. I went to Bugiri and spent some time with her. Just to get another woman and also because she was FDC. Then Kassiano Wadri (Arua Municipality) happens and I think for me it was the state brutality, the trumped-up charges, the repression, the deployment of a very brutal military and police outfit who did what we saw they did that compelled me towards People Power. I mobilised two vans of young men and women protesters from Makerere University to go in support of the bail application for Bobi. I remember at the time, he had been denied bail.

At the time we didn’t know where he was. There were rumours that he was in Makindye or he was in Naguru or Arua and Barbie was looking for her husband. And it is at that moment that I joined People Power. I mobilised family members who gave me fuel for two cars. We wanted to be there at court.

Your critics accuse you of jumping onto the People Power bandwagon in a bid to win the upcoming election…

After the vast majority of Ugandans left Arua-Gulu, I heard the story of Night Asara and Shaban Atiku, who were brutalised and tortured during detention. There was also another lady called Syda Abdallah. Shaban’s story was particularly interesting because when he came to court, he was on crutches and his back was clearly hurt and he was in pain.

Nigh Asara’s story as a woman appealed to me. I asked my exemplary mentor in defiance, Dr Kizza Besigye, for money to fuel my Ipsum car and a friend of mine, Joweria, who is in Jeema (political party) and had joined the People Power movement at the time. We drove to Arua and I did fundraising on Facebook. We raised Shs8m; Shs4m for Shaban and Shs4m for Night Asara.

I brought them to Mengo hospital where I paid for their medical care and treatment, and it was costly. But it was Ugandans who come from different political parties that contributed that money. I think at that moment I became the care giver, the health provider, the nurse, the vehicle fundraising money for those who do activism in People Power.

In that moment, I wasn’t interested in vying for political office because I have evidence that Shaban’s spinal cord was injured. We did x-ray scans. I know about Night Asara and so the evidence of torture by the state against people who are merely in the Opposition convinced me that it is important to unite with others outside my party [FDC] who are engaged in the liberation struggle because it is dangerous and there are many who cannot take care of the wellbeing and welfare of broken bodies.

When Bobi was brought again to Makindye, I again mobilised youth and some women. We were threatened as we were going to Makindye to sing his songs. I asked people to send his [Bobi] songs. We were singing songs like Oba tonta ng’onta and Situuka tutambule. We met with Alan Ssewanyana [Makindye West MP] and he gave us his offices in Makindye, very close to the barracks. We would stage there for five days just singing, eating and holding placards and demanding the release of Bobi Wine.

Many of the young men who came say I mentored and ushered them into People Power because I gave them berets. Many of them have gone on to become NUP members. I didn’t. I have been participating in the People Power women’s league activities whenever invited.
When I was in prison, People Power visited just like FDC my party. Bobi Wine himself visited me not only once. He came with David Lewis [Rubongonya, the NUP secretary general]. I have been to the People Power structures.

The office in Kamwokya, we call it the barracks. I have participated in things. As a woman, when Opposition activists die, I am touched to the core because of the loss of life… Why are we dying? Because we are fighting for freedom. Why does the brutal State do that? When I participate in the funeral and burial of an Opposition member who has been murdered particularly by the State, the police, the military, I refuel myself, I re-energise myself.

People Power has had a number of actors, activists, foot soldiers dying in combat, being murdered by the police. I was in charge of collecting money at Ritah Nabukenya’s [a People Power supporter] funeral. I came in my blue dress. Nobody said go away. I realised we were going to have fundraising for the mourners to have porridge. You know this was before the movement’s (People Power) structures came up. So we raised funds in dollars, in shillings and pounds. As a People Power member, I wasn’t chased away. I have been to several other funerals of People Power members. I have participated in raising bail money for arrested People Power foot soldiers. I have been going to court and organising for them sureties. I cannot be surety for them because I have a number of criminal and other cases in court but I organise sureties.

Did Bobi Wine tell you that he was going to form or acquire a political party?

No. When Bobi visited me in prison. I asked about unity with FDC. I asked him about unity between him as an individual and Dr Kizza Besigye. We talked about it many times in prison. Apparently Bobi asked a friend of mine who is within their structures both in NUP and People Power why I refused to join NUP. That friend told him that Stella said when you visited her in prison, she categorically asked you if you were going to form a political party and you denied it. So no, he has never told me that he was going to form a political party. His explanation to my friend was that the confines of prison – the lack of confidentiality and privacy – meant that there were many things he couldn’t talk to me about because all visits were monitored and supervised by a prison wardress, sometimes four prison wardresses.

But it has been a long time since you left prison…

No, we haven’t talked about it. Bobi has given me appointments. He wanted to come to my house during the Covid-19 lockdown. Before the lockdown, I sought an appointment. When the lockdown happened, he said wait, we cannot meet now, let’s wait and see what happens and how the lockdown progresses. When the lockdown was lifted, he gave me two appointments through my political assistant, who sits in People Power and works on their structures. Each time, I organised my children, we cleaned the house special, I made special food for him and his entourage, and each time, he has disappointed me.

He never came?
He never came. He never explained why. He just cancelled at the final minute. And so for me you know my time is valuable. I don’t care about the status of the person I would like time to be appreciated, and I would like appointments to be appreciated. Those two appointments that were cancelled perhaps were because he had other priorities but for me, I love leaders who make me feel valued and appreciated.

I understand he is busy. I understand why he doesn’t have time to honour appointments he has set. It is him who calls these appointments but I think it is bad manners, okay? Especially, we are all very busy political animals, he isn’t the only busy political actor. But, especially for me, there are issues that surround money and food. If I am getting food for children saying, we won’t buy rice saying let’s buy something special for Bobi and his entourage, take me seriously because I am going an extra mile to make sure that you come to my house and it’s worthy of Bobi. That’s one downer for me.

People from FDC who want to come to my house to visit come. They keep appointments. It is a small thing but it is an indication of the extent to which one of your leaders values you, respects you. Respect is mutual. So no! Bobi Wine has never spoken with me privately apart from settings such as prisons, police. He has visited me at Kira Division Police Station and you know like in solidarity, as an ally. Bobi comes from the Buffalo clan, and that is my clan too. Whether or not, I belong to NUP and Bobi is still special in my heart.

How did you receive the news of NUP being unveiled?

I think for me there are many questions, and I refuse to be gagged by those who say, Stella Nyanzi shouldn’t ask about NUP because she isn’t a NUP member. I am an academic. I am a scholar. My duty isn’t to give answers; my duty is to ask important questions. As for me when I got the news, because I am close to others who are within structures of NUP, I knew that very many including the leadership didn’t know that NUP was going to happen, right?

I will say four or three things. One, as a member of People Power who believes and is attracted and admires the appeal of a radical formation that is ambiguous, amorphous… they cannot pin us down…they cannot sue us. What is People Power as an entity? And the fact that it had mobilised a lot of support, particularly in Buganda but also other parts of Uganda, I was so disappointed that suddenly those who had said to us that they weren’t going to form a party had yielded and the radical element was getting curtailed and overridden by this normalisation of how to function as entities in politics in Uganda. They took an easy way out and formed NUP. I was disappointed.

However, that moment of disappointment, I renewed my commitment to the FDC because FDC has been faithful to its mission as a political party, it has never moved. Maybe there are fissions, there is friction, people get off, but it has remained a political party. I strengthened my resolve and commitment to FDC as a political party.

The second answer I have for NUP is the response of questioning: Like why? How? When? Where? Who? And I am not asking alone. I am asking on behave of very many who are frustrated by the formation of NUP. I am lucky that I can vocalise, I can articulate the questions fearlessly even amid the opposition for questioning, but for me like I said to you in university, what we do is question so that by the time we reach a consensus, it is there because it is informed, right? If we consent, it is always informed consent. You don’t just accept anything for the sake of it.

I think the problem is that many Ugandans don’t question, they just swallow everything. Many Ugandans haven’t be empowered to question. They think it is dangerous to question, especially people in power. Because I have positioned myself as a person who speaks truth to power, in that moment, I also clarified to myself that I don’t only ask questions to those who abuse power in the dictatorship of President Museveni, I ask questions even to those in power, in my political party and those in my pressure group. Even to friends and allies. I can ask Norbert Mao, I can ask anybody questions because Uganda allows me to do so as a Ugandan.

I was propelled to keep on asking what appeared to many as rude questions because there were no answers. Every question I asked, you know; does your constitution [NUP], for example, amend the former party’s constitution, or it’s totally new? Is it a revision? What’s your constitution? Where is it? What are the articles? What does it provide for? How does it cater for membership? All those questions had no answers. And I was asking these questions on panels that comprise the spokesperson [People Power/ NUP] Joel Ssenyonyi or Shamim Malende, Kampala woman MP hopeful who positions herself as Bobi Wine’s lawyer.

Lawyers should know what’s happening because political parties are governed by law. There is law that governs how we function as political party members. I asked about membership, I asked about structure, I asked how Bobi became president or presidential candidate designate, whatever his name is, in this NUP thing. Who appointed him? Was it through an election, was it… how? Is it favours from the gods?

You drew a correlation between Bobi Wine and Museveni…

There is nothing wrong with that. That is what scholars do, but that is what a wise member of People Power should ask. Ani yamufuula Kabaka wa People Power? [Who made him the king of People Power?] . Afuuse Kabaka? [Has he been enthroned as a king?]. It is an important question. And I ask it shamelessly, boldly as well, because if we are going to ask Mr Museveni these questions, we must guard against creating Musevenis in these formations fighting for liberation, liberty and freedoms.

We don’t want more Musevenis created where we think we are safer, more liberated spaces, right? I don’t want that. It can happen. Let it happen when people know that at one point, Nyanzi put those questions out there. So I am glad many of the questions that I asked come from the position of knowledge.
The man I sleep with, a NUP/ People Power member, I asked him when did he become a NUP member? You want to run on NUP ticket, show me your NUP card. I showed him my FDC card, I showed him his FDC card because he was FDC. I said show me your NUP card. Then he said, tetulina kaadi [We have no cards]. I think questions are important because now I am seeing brochures. Some questions are being answered. I want to see the structures.

Flavia Kalule who leads the People Power’s women wing is now leading the women’s wing in NUP. Has she boycotted the People Power’s women’s league? Are we left alone? Are they transposing People Power structure onto NUP? What about those who were in People Power structures but they aren’t going to NUP?
The third reaction I had was one of understanding, because again, I associate closely with People Power members who are powerless. What Robert Kyagulanyi or People Power did was to provide a platform for some disfranchised Ugandans who feel their parties went off course. Or those who are entering the age of suffrage, aged 18 to 22 that never had a base to participate but they have been disillusioned by the existent parties and the regime and they would have been independent. In that regard, People Power was creating a huge mass of many dissidents.

NUP creates a party for them, a party through which they can participate in the processes. Because again, I love very many people in People Power and I understand they had no membership cards. In my house, they were about five young people who wanted to contest for the youth council membership, the election that was concluded. And I think the confusion was the question on the form about the political affiliation. They said batugambye tutekeeko NUP naye tebatuwanga na kaadi [They have told us to fill in NUP but they have never given us cards]. The deadline came before they could provide cards. So I wish NUP well but I will never join them.
Recently, Bobi Wine gave People Power members an ultimatum; you either join NUP or you get lost. No middle ground...

He doesn’t have the moral authority to do that. He cannot say that. We are saying and we are giving him an ultimatum that we aren’t joining NUP. Deal with it, okay? Bobi shouldn’t confuse Ugandans; we think for ourselves. When he needed us to mobilise… protest, work, when he was in jail, when he needed us to mobilise money, when people were beaten up and they needed healthcare, when he needed sureties and fees, we have contributed. He doesn’t have any moral or any authority to say to us get out of People Power.

And I am questioning him over time. He can speak and grow NUP. That is his responsibility, okay? It is important for him to have NUP, especially if Mr Museveni rigs back a win for himself and Kyagulanyi isn’t in Parliament and he isn’t contesting as a Member of Parliament. So he needs a niche for himself, a new formation for himself to lead. It is his responsibility to grow NUP but he isn’t going to force those who choose for ourselves where we want to belong to go into NUP.

You believed that People Power won’t morph into a political party. Aren’t you naïve?
Naivety, sweetheart, it is my trademark, it is my signature. I think the best scholars are those who enter trains from the position of I don’t know. We keep on asking, asking, asking questions, interrogate, interrogate and interrogate… And then we make up for ourselves as we are asking these questions that seem naïve, making statements that seem to be rhetorical and getting answers. I am a researcher. I cannot be a researcher and not be a naïve. I have to be naïve perhaps for performance. I am part of the feminist and queer movement. Those two movements have seen waves, alright? Growth, falls, growth, falls. They are waves. But the feminist movement still stands and it has a longer history than People Power.

So I have studied movements for a long time. So my naivety makes me what I am and when I win having stuck on my position, often people are like “eh! eh!, she knew all along. How could she know?” So naivety is an important tool. In this battle, we must approach these things as if we don’t know because if we pretend that we know, if we are doing our liberation struggle using the tools of the past [she laughs], it won’t work.

I am a believer of the movement [People Power] not the party [NUP]. There are so many people who fundraise for People Power and ask about NUP. So can NUP exist without funds? Or are you telling me the bank account that was operating for People Power is now the bank account for NUP? Where is the separation between People Power and NUP? Because those who were giving money to People Power, particularly those in the diaspora, were funding a movement, not a political party.

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