Gen Tumwine is a bully, minister Opendi tells Rules Committee

The State Minister of Health for General Duties, Ms Sarah Opendi, has told the Rules Committee of Parliament that her Cabinet colleague Gen Elly Timwine is a bully.
She was appearing before the Committee yesterday to testify against the Minister for Security, who is under probe for alleged contempt of Parliament.
The Committee chaired by Kalaki County MP Clement Obote-Ongalo also heard that it is true Dr Opendi is married to Bukonjo West MP, Mr Atikins Katusabe, as alluded to by Gen Tumwine.
Opendi narrates that the squabble emanated from a security situation in Kasese District, in which security officers were involved in the eviction of traders at a local abattoir.
In this excerpt, Dr Opendi narrates how Mr Katusabe ended in Gen Tumwine’s office. First, she said, he (Katusabe) met ISO chief Col Kaka Bagyenda in a bid to return normalcy back home.
Here is an account of what transpired during the meeting.

Opendi: In one of the Cabinet meetings, I tried to discuss the issue with the minister for Security (Gen Tumwine) and I told him that this matter should not be taken lightly because it was creating a lot of problems in the area.
On Monday, July 22, we had a chat on the matter, I told him the problem was still continuing and I asked him (Gen Tumwine) to find an amicable way of resolving this problem and also get the facts from the Member of Parliament. Cabinet ended around 5:00pm that day.
We met that evening, I was present and Mr Katusabe tried to introduce the subject matter to him and in the process of bringing out this issue to him, he also informed him that he had met the Speaker earlier in the day and requested to present the matter on the floor of Parliament.
It is at that point that Gen Tumiwne made the statement saying that “who is Speaker…” he mentioned those exact words in my presence and I was not confortable, I remember interjecting and told the minister that the MP has nowhere else to raise a matter of such national importance.
We ended the meeting after three hours and there was no clear way forward that Gen Tumwine offered on the matter. He (Gen Tumwine) maintained security would continue following the shifts the people should operate in.

Obote: (Reads what Katusabe said…)
“The minister retorted: Who is the Speaker, who is she, what is Parliament?. The Speaker rules over Parliament, she does not rule over Uganda. This country was liberated by the military but not her Parliament. Do not tell me about your Speaker and about your Parliament. The army cannot be directed by civilians.”

Obote: Is this a correct impression of what took place in the minister’s office?

Opendi: Chair, I want to confirm that those statements were mentioned by Gen Tumwine as they are.

Asuman Basalirwa: How would you describe that interaction in terms of managing public affairs? Was it an official way of managing a matter of this nature?
Secondly, Gen Tumwine when he appeared before this committee, he actually did inform us that in trying to seek an appointment to meet him, you actually informed him that you and Hon Atikins are husband and wife and that is on the record. Would that in anyway impair your impartiality or objectivity in as far as this matter is concerned?

Opendi: It is very unfortunate that we have gotten into this state because first of all, this is not a private matter and because I mentioned that the director general ISO had purportedly written a letter to the RDC, which they later denied. It is not public because it was already in the public domain and it is for this reason that I reached out to the authorities.
Yes, Mr Kutusabe is my husband but I cannot come here to say something for the sake of it just because he is my husband. Gen Tumwine mentioned those things and I was surprised when he was saying this was a lie. He was not being honest. I expect someone who is born-again to be honest and speak the truth. So when I see him trying to deny something, which he said in front of me, I get lost.
Abdu Katuntu: When you introduced yourself to the committee, you did say you are the minister of State General Duties, Health and also a Member of Parliament for Tororo District. May I know in what capacity you got involved in the issues of Kasese District.
Secondly, I want to give a very hypothetical situation, if you as a minister had a conversation with a colleague minister and he did express his negative attitude towards the prime minister or the president or vice president when you are two, would you find it proper and responsible for you to go and repeat those very negative attitudes in Cabinet?

Opendi: Allow me to state that I was shocked, hearing the many people giving their own account of who Gen Tumiwne is and how he has been responding to them.
In my own observation, Gen Tumwine is a bully. That is what I can state.
As to whether I would be comfortable to relay the issues, it depends on the issue.
For Gen Tumwine this was a matter of public concern.

Opendi: The whole purpose of meeting Gen Tumwine was really to resolve the problem in the constituency (Bukonzo), the shooting that had occurred…

Katuntu: Mr chairperson, I think let us also get this clear; the issue is not about the security situation in Kasese, we are not investigating that……

Opendi: But you have asked questions.
Katuntu: You see what we are looking at are the remarks purportedly made by Gen Tumwine, which you said he made, that is the issue. The background and so on…that is another matter.
We are only looking at this because from your own submission, you are saying it was a digression from the real meeting and we are looking at the digression as to whether it amounted to contempt or indiscipline on the part of the General on the side of Parliament.
The line is a little bit thin but it is not the same. The point is about the words alleged to Gen Tumwine.
Opendi: Chair, this then means his other question on what capacity I got involved in this matter also collapses because you are asking me and taking me back to the same issues because you want to explain how I got involved.
On whether I would report the matter to the Prime Minister, I would certainly report because in this case, he (Katusabe) had already informed the Speaker for space and when we met Gen Tumwine and failed to get a solution, we had to get back to the Speaker.

Katuntu: I am trying to be an advocate so that you appreciate but lastly, my concern is about the free thinking, the attitude. Don’t you think that this kind of action will hinder other members from interacting with colleagues freely and even expressing opinion, positive or negative about leaders because this was a conversation between three people but you brought it to the public?

Obote: Honourable Katuntu, are you saying that you consider the conversation that took place in the minister’s office to be a conversation among three MPs, two of who are ministers and may be these things came up because they thought that in their privacy they could discuss anything and not be afraid of it coming out or being brought on the floor of Parliament?

Katuntu: Yes

Obote:(To Opendi) Don’t you think the minister may have said this in your presence believing that in the privacy of his office after three hours of discussion, there was this something, just thoughts… you know, as members. Is it wrong for this to come up?

Opendi: I appreciate Honourable Katuntu’s point but I have also ever been caught up in the same situation, a member from Busoga Sub-region had an issue and when I tried to speak to him one-on-one, he came on the floor and said, “the minister said….”
But I just want members to appreciate that if it was just a conversation in a calm manner, I don’t think it would have gone the way it went because at that point when he was asking “who is the Speaker,” the voice was actually raised and I was uneasy and that is why the matter had to get out.
We do talk about one another about our weaknesses and so on but again if you raise your voice…

Last week sesssion

CCTV footage. The MPs on the committee recently questioned the quality of the CCTV camera footage produced by Parliament’s security department because it lacked some of the key actions in which Gen Tumwine allegedly attempted to assault MP Cecilia Ogwal.
After a heated debate last month when MPs debated a motion moved by Busiro East MP Medard Lubega Sseggona following allegations by Bukonzo West MP Godfrey Atkins Katusabe that Gen Tumwine made statements against the House and the Speaker, the minister allegedly met Ms Ogwal in the Pegeon Hall, where he is reported to have confronted her.
While commencing investigations, last week, the committee reviewed the footage in which Gen Tumwine is seen charging against a woman seated at the Opposition corner of the Pegeon Hall, but she could not be recognised. The CCTV footage is not accompanied by audio clips.