You can’t relate my case to Mpuuga’s – Ssenyonyi on Parliament money saga 

How do you feel about being a first-timer in Parliament, and two-and-half-years down the road you are named Leader of Opposition Parliament (LoP)?

I didn’t get to know about my appointment the day I was unveiled. A few days prior, when we were in a meeting, colleagues told me how they were thinking about it and I accepted because as a leader you always have to be ready. It was humbling and it was a stamp of belief in me.

What do you think are those areas you performed exceptionally well that might have elevated your to your new office?

I am a determined fellow because I always want to take the bull by its horns and that is what my colleagues have known and seen in me. I am resolute and I don’t tolerate mediocrity.

As the new LoP, what is your plan? 
The main mandate for me and the entire Opposition is to keep the government in check. So wherever we see injustice, corruption and human rights violation, it’s our duty to keep the government in check. I have been engaging the entire team about the same and good enough it is something that is easily understood by colleagues.

We have always seen a divided Opposition in Parliament, especially when it comes to voting on crucial matters. How do you plan on making sure that the Opposition comes together at all times?

Bringing people together is one of the hardest things, but as a leader you will always have to find a way to do so because at the end of the day, we are the ones that represent the voices of the people. 

When I was chairing the Committee on Commissions, Statutory Authorities, and State Enterprises (COSASE) I told my committee members for all the reports we inquire into, we shall have to speak with one voice at all times. I said corruption affects all of us and I thank God that for all reports we produced, there was no minority report and they were all unanimously adopted by the whole House.

My hope is that we shall continue to move as a block and that even when we disagree, we shall find ways of coming back together and settle matters. What will not change, though, is the fight against injustice and our mandate of keeping the government in check, that will not change. Anyone that will stand in our way of doing that, we shall run them over and continue moving. 

About the Opposition legislative agenda and alternative policy statements, how are you going to make sure that it is implemented effectively?

At the start of Parliament, we set out to have a legislative agenda for five years and we did it collectively. But you have to break that down and have different modus operandi. For instance, recently we unveiled our priority areas which feed into our main issue and there are several issues but three stand out.

One, we want to push back against corruption, poor service delivery and human rights violations. We want to put up a huge fight against those ones.

You’re coming into office when the legislative arm of government is under fire over alleged corruption. How are you dealing with this issue?

Like I said, my mandate and that of other colleagues in Parliament is to keep the government in check. Some people misconstrue government to be just the Executive, but it has three which are the Legislature, Judiciary and Executive. So my mandate transcends through all of them.

So as I demand accountability for Lubowa hospital where Shs600b has been injected and there is nothing to show for it, I am also going to demand that the leadership of Parliament explains the things that we have been seeing around all of them.

People are awarding themselves contracts. One official gave a contract to her radio station worth billions and some of the people who signed papers as radio managers work in her office here. 

Who are those people?
I will share with you a copy of the contracts. There is a lot of resistance. Some of it is from my very colleagues because these people are very powerful.

Some of your party members have been implicated in huge corruption scandals. How are you handling this?

We have helped our colleague to try and get out of that mess and definitely he has not listened to us thus far. We met and he acknowledged that what he had done was wrong and apologised.

In 2017, an investigation was done by Cosase under the leadership of Hon Abdu Katuntu (MP Bugweri) and the report was tabled by the current Speaker, Rt Hon Anita Among, as deputy chair of the committee.

In this matter, 42 government officials were awarded Shs60 billion in the infamous handshake because of an arbitration case in London where there were able to save government from losing about Shs2.4 trillion.

In this report, the members of the committee unanimously agreed and wrote that the members should refund the money and the IGG [Inspector General of Government] and Hon Among said this was wrong for people to determine an award for themselves and it was illegal and they were earning a salary.

Now these ones were getting this money for what? People have been saying gratuity, how? Every MP earns gratuity and we know the channels through which they get this money. Mpuuga must save his face and resign.

This week, it emerged that you requested for facilitation to travel to Nairobi, Kenya, for five days yet you were in the country for only one day. How do you explain that to those who have faith in you to fight a government you say is corrupt?
Like I said earlier, I requested for one day and a few days my bank account was hit by money for five days. There is an office called the accountability office and immediately I saw this mismatch, I took back the complaint and in their explanation, they said they were processing for many people so they sent money for five days.

Their explanation is that this money will be deducted from my monthly emoluments which will be in April so I couldn’t wait for that long. I withdrew the money and took it back to the accountability office. 

NUP has asked Mpuuga to apologise, refund the money and resign over the money they say he got illegally from Parliament. Will you do the same; apologise, refund the money and resign?
You are relating this to Mr Mpuuga’s situation. First, he didn’t act before the quizzing happened and also, he was awarded this money wrongly. Mine is not criminal because I am supposed to get reimbursement and it’s provided for within the law. So it’s not on my end to release the money and I did not sit in a meeting to say let’s award this money to ourselves. All we are seeking is following the law to letter, and people will manipulate everything to see us in the wrong side of the law. That will not deter us from seeking for accountability from the people misusing the taxpayers’ money.

You sit on the NEC, CEC and highest organs of the party. Do you think NUP has handled this matter of Mr Mpuuga in a proper way?
We have said no one in NUP is above the law and we are not going to sweep these things under the carpet. And that is a precedent we are setting.

But there are things we know for sure that you have swept under the carpet like the Shs40m that was awarded to the MPs, including NUP leaders….

It’s good that you are now bringing this up. You people in the media were asking us so many questions, but our hands were tied in many respects. So you are hearing all these things in corridors but you don’t have evidence.

But there are MPs who confessed…
Yes. Those who confessed, we took action. For instance, Hon [Charles] Tebandeke (Bbaale MP) was recalled from the position of shadow minister and we scrapped that off him. You know that Hon [Twaha] Kagabo (Bukoto South MP) has since left us and gone into another political movement.

You have come to this office when many NUP supporters are battling various cases in the General Court Martial. Will you continue boycotting sittings like has been the norm in your predecessor’s administration?
We have to deploy different tools in the tool box. The other day we were in court standing surety for them because in the past the court has denied them bail because their fathers and mothers have been deemed unfit. Now as leaders, we have gone and stood surety for them. Now we wait and see what the next issue will be.

NUP has had an understanding with members who came from the DP bloc. Is this marriage collapsing?
There has never been a marriage between anyone. Everyone that joined us came individually and they even wanted us to sign an agreement and we refused because everyone comes on their own. DP bloc was never a registered entity, so coming with a suggestion for signing an agreement would be foolhardy. There is no group membership card and that is why everyone gets an individual card.

Around that time, a meeting that lasted hours at the office of NUP in Kamwokya ended with members of the DP bloc and NUP leaders indicating that there had been a memorandum of understanding (MoU) between the two groups…
Have you ever seen that MoU? Do you have evidence that it happened or were you told by someone?

That is why I am here to interview you. Was the MoU signed or not?
Okay, let me answer you. There was never any MoU, and just to remove any scintilla of doubt, an MoU can only happen between two entities and there was never anything called DP bloc like I said earlier. 

That day you found us meeting with these people, whether they were in a group or not, just like we met many people who wanted to join us. 

But during this meeting you agreed with them on how, for instance, they have to behave. They also brought in their expectations. No?
Let me say this for the umpteenth time, there was never an agreement. They were not formal like you try to put it in MoU and what not.

Many members who joined NUP from the DP bloc have not been speaking the same language with the party. They differ with you in opinion. How are you dealing with this?
Some of these are like brothers and they have come from very far. So we do understand and it is natural that they do support each other. They have been through a lot together.

I met you in Nairobi, Kenya, interfacing with the opposition there. And you had a similar engagement  in South Africa. What lessons do you draw from some of these leaders?

They are different and have moved a long way. The problem we have here in our country is you have a man who has ruled us for close to four decades and everything starts and ends with him.

In Kenya, for instance, where they also have challenges, they (opposition) are listened to, they have operating space and have their voices heard. People know that today I am in government and tomorrow I might be in the opposition because it happens practically. So that makes a huge difference in the way they approach things and how they see each other as opposed to here.

For instance, they have a panel of assistant speakers and they are six. When the two substantive speakers are away, any of the six can chair the house and it can be an opposition member. Just imagine that happened to Uganda.